Dark syrup is dark syrup is dark syrup??

[Andy VT]

I've been wondering: It sounds like there are a lot of ways we can make syrup darker than it needs to be, such as dirty pan or dirty collection buckets or too much time boiling in the pan. But I often hear "well, I like dark syrup anyway" or "my customers like it dark anyway" or some such. So here is my question: Is that actually the same? Is syrup that is made dark due to something in the processing the exact same as syrup that is dark because it is late in the season?

[DrTimPerkins]

Color is a relatively simple thing to measure quantitatively and get a good answer. Flavor....not so much. There are over 150 flavor molecules in maple syrup, and each sugarbush and process is somewhat unique.

[ennismaple]

Interesting topic... Now that we're able to process sap much faster using RO and more efficient evaporators there are many different ways that syrup can be "darkened" - some of which we control and some we cannot. It might be sap chemistry, atmospheric temperature, how long sap sits before processing, cleanliness of tanks and other equipment, the Brix of RO concentrate, how long concentrate is allowed to sit before boiling, the flue pan to flat pan ratio of your evaporator, the depth of sap in your pans and a number of other factors. I lack the vocabulary to accurately describe the flavors in different syrups but I do know that I prefer the dark syrup we make at a specific point in the season.

[DrTimPerkins]

You can kind of think of "flavor" in maple as being notes or chords on a stringed instrument or piano. Like in music these individual flavors are also referred to as "notes". There are 6-10 dominant notes in maple, but lots of minor notes. Also like in music, these flavor notes have a strength or intensity associated with them.

The true "maple" notes are generally found primarily in lighter syrups. Darker syrups characteristically have far less of the true "maple" notes, and far more and far more intense "confectionary" "burnt sugar", "coffee", "nutty" and "woody/herbaceous" notes.

Some of these notes are derived from molecules in the sap itself, but some are derived from the decomposition productions caused by microbes in the sap, and the types and level of microbes themselves can influence the flavor. Then you get things like sap temperature, storage conditions, processing, etc. superimposed on top of the whole thing and it becomes very complex very quickly, making it really difficult to tease out the specific influences on flavor.

[Andy VT]

These are helpful perspectives, thanks! I think my takeaways are:
It is at least plausible that inducing dark syrup during processing might not taste the same as syrup that is dark just because it is the season for dark.
It may be difficult to be sure which of the above applies.
I might as well feel free to make up new wives tales and perpetuate my favorite old ones about syrup flavor contributors... who will stop me :lol:

I'd love to hear more on the topic... any theories on how you make your syrup taste the way you want it to. Or even, what you do if you want to win a syrup taste competition. (Maybe... if you taste a batch and like it, set it aside for the event!)

[DrTimPerkins]

Or even, what you do if you want to win a syrup taste competition. (Maybe... if you taste a batch and like it, set it aside for the event!)

That is how most winners do it. But always be sure to taste it again before submitting it. Sometimes the flavor isn't exactly how we remember it.

[berkshires]

I might as well feel free to make up new wives tales and perpetuate my favorite old ones about syrup flavor contributors... who will stop me :lol:

Okay here's one: I've always thought that at least some of the reason late-season syrup tastes stronger is the simple reason that the sap has lower sugar to start. Think about it - if you could take 2.2% sap and magically remove some of the sugar, while leaving everything else the same - let's say you drop it to 1.5% sugar. By the time you take it to syrup, you'll have nearly 50% more concentrated everything else in the sap than you would the 2.2% sap. So if late season sap simply had lower sugar, and everything else was the same, you'd get stronger-flavored syrup just because you have more of every other chemical per volume in the finished product.

GO

[Ed R]

I've made syrup in S.E. Michigan for about 12 years now and have never made syrup lighter than the dark end of amber rich. I tap almost 100% reds and silvers and the soil I'm on is like a peat soil. Last year after season was over downstate I took my rig (a 2x6) to property I own in the UP. I only tapped sugar maples, it was late in the season up there, and 90% of the syrup I made was golden delecate. The soil I'm on up there is a light gravely soil. My gut tells me tree species has less to do with darkness of syrup than soil type but I'm not sure. The sugar content in the UP was actually lower than on the reds and silvers downstate.

[ennismaple]

I've made syrup in S.E. Michigan for about 12 years now and have never made syrup lighter than the dark end of amber rich. I tap almost 100% reds and silvers and the soil I'm on is like a peat soil. Last year after season was over downstate I took my rig (a 2x6) to property I own in the UP. I only tapped sugar maples, it was late in the season up there, and 90% of the syrup I made was golden delecate. The soil I'm on up there is a light gravely soil. My gut tells me tree species has less to do with darkness of syrup than soil type but I'm not sure. The sugar content in the UP was actually lower than on the reds and silvers downstate. The increased sugar content going from reds to maples makes a big difference. You're likely getting double the sugar? That's half the time in the pans = less caramelization.

[Ed R]

Sugar averaged 1.3-1.5 on the sugar maples in the UP and 1.5 on the reds/silvers downstate last year. The syrup from the UP was some of the best tasting"fancy" I have ever had. Fresh taps and late season sap??? l was curious if I could make light syrup on that 2x6 rig. On the family farm 3x12 and 4x14 rigs I grew up making on we made lots of early season fancy ,especially the3x12. I was disappointed with the sugar conc in the up and if I make syrup up there again I will use an ro. No ro used ether place last year. Another thing, my sugar sand downstate is always quite dark and a pain to filter, in the up it looked like beach sand and filtered great.

[Swingpure]

You can kind of think of "flavor" in maple as being notes or chords on a stringed instrument or piano. Like in music these individual flavors are also referred to as "notes". There are 6-10 dominant notes in maple, but lots of minor notes. Also like in music, these flavor notes have a strength or intensity associated with them.

The true "maple" notes are generally found primarily in lighter syrups. Darker syrups characteristically have far less of the true "maple" notes, and far more and far more intense "confectionary" "burnt sugar", "coffee", "nutty" and "woody/herbaceous" notes.

Some of these notes are derived from molecules in the sap itself, but some are derived from the decomposition productions caused by microbes in the sap, and the types and level of microbes themselves can influence the flavor. Then you get things like sap temperature, storage conditions, processing, etc. superimposed on top of the whole thing and it becomes very complex very quickly, making it really difficult to tease out the specific influences on flavor.

I find this post interesting and maybe daunting. This was my first year making syrup and I have been told by several people that it was the best syrup they have ever tasted. The latest comment I received yesterday was flattering: “ “Good morning , tell Gary I love his maple syrup , the best I ever tasted and I have tasted a lot of them , enjoying very much thank you 😊”.

Somehow I lucked into the right notes.

Next season instead of five steam pans, I will have a divided pan and I will be using the RO. It will be like playing a different instrument. It will be interesting to see how next year’s syrup will taste and look like.

I think you just do the best job you can and how the different flavour notes come out, will be a matter of chance.

[MajorWoodchuck]

Glad I read this post. I was feeling my syrup was a little inferior because it came out dark to very dark in color but the flavor was "good". I am touring "Syrup country" now with my wife in VT, NH, and ME to admire the fall colors and stopped at several syrup producers to see their operations and got to sample some golden-delecate, amber-rich, and dark-robust...and I believe the flavor of my syrup is closest to the rich in taste and not the robust. Maybe once I get off of hotel pans that sit down in the fire that caramelize/ burn on the sides, and filter better from my new filter press (currently using the settling method) my color will get lighter and my flavor stay the same, to be more inline with the grading charts?

[Darrel Wright]

Somehow I lucked into the right notes.

I've gotten this comment too over the years, INVARIABLY on long boil "batch" runs where I'm basically doing the opposite of what commercial operations are set up to do. It's mostly about carmelization I think. Maybe a whif of the wood fire gets in there too. Also regardless of color I get the best comments on midseason batches I think, like 20-30 growing degree days. Overall one thing I'm really convinced of is that on the whole people prefer deeper flavored syrup, and that the market (that values lightness in color and flavor) is kind of upside down. And maybe to a large extent a hangover from ye olden days when maple aimed to be a neutral sweeter that could be substituted for beet and or cane?

[TheNamelessPoet]

That is how most winners do it. But always be sure to taste it again before submitting it. Sometimes the flavor isn't exactly how we remember it.

Bingo! I submitted last year and WON 1st place in a local fair.

[TheNamelessPoet]

I've gotten this comment too over the years, INVARIABLY on long boil "batch" runs where I'm basically doing the opposite of what commercial operations are set up to do. It's mostly about carmelization I think. Maybe a whif of the wood fire gets in there too. Also regardless of color I get the best comments on midseason batches I think, like 20-30 growing degree days. Overall one thing I'm really convinced of is that on the whole people prefer deeper flavored syrup, and that the market (that values lightness in color and flavor) is kind of upside down. And maybe to a large extent a hangover from ye olden days when maple aimed to be a neutral sweeter that could be substituted for beet and or cane?

I agree ESPECIALLY in plastic containers people are just looking for flavor.

[blissville maples]

I think the 'people like darker syrup ' is kind of a folklore fun to tell story like yea the light is good but everyone likes the dark. I don't find that the case. Alot of people don't care for the dark and want the light due to it's finer flavors, for coffee sweetener the dark takes away from the coffee whereas the light does not. think many haven't been able to produce the light so they knock it. But as far as flavor the lighter syrup has a more fine flavor, like sipping syrup, the top shelf vanilla flavored stuff.

Dark is good too but usually accompanied by other flavors. For a split second in the season you make a nice buttery dark, but then quickly changes to the toffee coffee flavor which isn't ideal compared to the fine vanilla notes of the golden.

[DrTimPerkins]

Flavor preferences are very individualistic. Some people like light, but sweet. Some like a little more flavor, but not a kick you in the mouth syrup. Others like strong syrup with a bite. Others prefer REAL dark stuff. No point trying to convince people or arguing about it...just sell folks what they like.

[BAP]

Many producers work hard to convince themselves and others that consumers only want the grades of syrup that they make. Particularly, the producers that run high Brix RO sap into their evaporator and make light syrup. They are the ones who are most convinced that everyone wants light syrup. In reality, most average consumers will buy medium or dark syrup in the stores because that’s what they are used to. Plus, the average consumer will buy on price point.

[DrTimPerkins]

Many producers work hard to convince themselves and others that consumers only want the grades of syrup that they make. Particularly, the producers that run high Brix RO sap into their evaporator and make light syrup. They are the ones who are most convinced that everyone wants light syrup.

The flavor preferences ran the full gamut. In the mass market (supermarkets, chain stores, etc.), the majority of syrup sold tends to be in the mid-range, trending towards dark. This may not be exactly what they want, but most consumers are not terribly well educated about maple or able to distinguish the difference. One of the reasons the mass-market trends towards dark syrup is that it is always possible to blend syrup to make it darker, but darn difficult to blend to make it lighter. That's why historically lighter syrup commanded a higher price, and packers were always searching for light syrup. You can take a real dark syrup (maybe with a bit of off-flavor) and blend it with some light syrup to make some palatable. You can't take a dark syrup and make it light (at least not legally).