Planning for 10k taps, what evaporator?

[MDMAniac]

If you were planning a stepped increase of 2-3000 taps every year for the next 4 years, what size evaporator would you go with? Steam, oil, wood fired? Let’s assume cost is irrelevant. And of course, why?

RO is a given to minimum 16 brix…

Asking for a friend 🙃

[motowbrowne]

If you were planning a stepped increase of 2-3000 taps every year for the next 4 years, what size evaporator would you go with? Steam, oil, wood fired? Let’s assume cost is irrelevant. And of course, why?

RO is a given to minimum 16 brix…

Asking for a friend 🙃

My thoughts aren't worth much here, since I cook for 1000 and haven't been around too many other operations, at least beyond short visits. That said, if cost isn't an object, steam sure seems appealing. No flue pan to clean, can't burn a pan, quiet evaporator, very efficient. That said, I don't know if the install pencils out at that size, and not doing real high brix.

Actually, I did observe something interesting this year during my visits. I have a small RO (for now...) and a 4x14 wood fired that does about 200gph of evaporation for 1000 taps. One guy I visited has a 4x14 natural gas with a similar rate. He's got a much bigger RO (one 16 & three 8s) and cooks for 14000. Visited another operation, also a 4x14 but oil and over 300 for evaporation. They cook for 10000 and have a medium size RO (three 8s). So, it seems to be a popular and versatile size, I guess.

[ecp]

Talking just about an evaporator is a little difficult because the operation as a whole just ends at the evaporator but everything leading up to that point is very important.

If money were not the factor here is what i would do.
Get an RO that can concentrate to 30 percent, put the concentrate in a refrigerated bulk tank and boil on a 4x16 oil evaporator (either a CDL master or Lapierre turbo because of the efficiency and flexibility the tubes bring). Id spend the money and get a full in place cleaning set up. This allows for boils once a week or so which equates to more time in the woods and with family. I'd also like to add I'd make the RO room huge to allow for another RO and UF unit down the road because when Maple nectar takes off (I believe that is going to be a huge market) you already have the space. I'd make sure to have at least a 600 amp service and a boat load of tank storage. I know the question was simply about the evaporator and if that is all you want go with a CDL master (about 100 grand now), but you are shooting yourself in the foot not thinking about everything else. Just my 4 cents.

[fred]

too many details0 missing to say for sure. but a 4 to 5ft unit by 12 or 14ft long with a 2 post, expandable to 3, option to start with.

[ennismaple]

I agree with going big on the RO and slightly smaller on the evaporator. I'd be looking to concentrate to 30+ Brix with refrigerated storage and boil twice a week. Likely something in the 4x 14 range with 10 feet of the pans being flat pan would work.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

I would at least talk with CDL about the steam evaporator to see if there are RO/steam evaporator options for that size operation. MES has them as well but what I've seen from them appears to be for the much larger scale operations. CDL is also coming out with electric evaporators supposedly some time this month. That's interesting, curious to see what's that all about. Maybe Fred has some insight on that?

[fred]

electric is still in the works but sounds like efficiency is going to be there 100amps per foot width. I personally would not go to steam for under 50,000 taps. the cheaper end of the boilers and set up is $75,000+. The ROs are the key to make any of it cost effective.

[MDMAniac]

Much appreciated by all.

Potentially New operation starting from ground zero with an empty building, thousands of taps available.

Really wanted some feedback on steam or electric. Business plan defines 10k taps in 5 years but there is opportunity for way more then that. RO is the big initial piece along with proper woods setup in my opinion.

[TapTapTap]

Much appreciated by all.

Potentially New operation starting from ground zero with an empty building, thousands of taps available.

Really wanted some feedback on steam or electric. Business plan defines 10k taps in 5 years but there is opportunity for way more then that. RO is the big initial piece along with proper woods setup in my opinion.

Here's my 2 cents

IMO, a 10,000 tap operation is too large to be maintained and operated by oneself and too small to justify paid professional help on any significant scale. If you have a big family of "free" labor then it might work. But with a large financial commitment on the line, it would seem risky to depend such support over the long run. Imagine whether the operation could afford the cost, administration, insurances, and extra accounting system of a paid employee.


Ken

[ecp]

Potentially New operation starting from ground zero with an empty building, thousands of taps available.


I wish you good luck. There are a lot of options out there for sure and it can be daunting at times, but this is a great place to bounce questions off others. Ken is right you will need 2 people on the hook for 10k taps and they better be willing to work otherwise all the money will be a waste. My thoughts are ROI wise you would be better of selling raw sap and getting the taps in faster. A good thing to remember is that the paycheck comes from the woods. Everything in sugarhouse beyond the vacuum portion has a very mall ROI (yes RO's have an ROI that is good when you are boiling but if you are selling sap they do not)