Installing a mainline 20’ high

[Bricklayer]

We are trying to tube a new part of bush this year that has some challenges.
Instead of dealing with gas pumps , generators , tractors , and wet soupy bush roads.
We are trying to get all our lines headed right to the sugar house.
1 problem we have is we have to lift a portion of the mainline that comes from a really productive part of our bush up 20’ and over a swampy part of dense cedars.
Ordered a double sap lifter to get it from 2’ to 20’.
Not gonna mess around with sap ladders. If it was 1x 5’ lift maybe. But not in this area.
We have cleared it out for the line to run safely but don’t know how we are going install it.
We can get the wire up and the tubing. But how we are gonna get up there to put the wire ties on the mainline is our problem.
A ladder will just sink into the swampy ground.
Any ideas. ?
Can’t really get a tractor in there either to do it out of the bucket.

[bill m]

How long is the run? Maybe use a section of prelashed?

[Ultimatetreehugger]

I run the wire loose enough to to be able to wire tie the tubing to it loosely, I then tension the wire to hight, I then use a ratchet strap and pull tension on the tubing. I'd post pics if I could.

[Bricklayer]

I was wondering about the pre lashed tubing. I saw it at the CDL store this year. Think it only comes in 1500’ rolls. Not the 500’ that I need. But I’m gonna get a price on it anyways. Might make my life a bit easier.
The section through and over the swamp is about 500-600’ and want to be at about 5-6 ‘ off ground when I get to the other side. So might not need to go 20’ high. But will still be high enough to be need a ladder to reach.
How is the pre lashed mainline to work with. If it has to be cut to length. How is that done.
Hose clamp around the lashing and wire and then cut the tubing and mainline and lashing to suit so it Dosnt turn into a rats nest ?

[Bricklayer]

Found a video on it.
https://youtu.be/64VctPiy6Hk

Looks like it would do the trick. Wonder what $$$ difference it is from the regular mainline. Probley double.

[ennismaple]

We installed a section like that this past fall - no way to get to a new section of woods without going around a vertical rock face which meant a mainline at almost 20 feet high for a section. We put a drive hook in at 4 feet high, wire tied the mainline to the steel, put the ladder up the tree to above the drive hook at the proper height and then tied the ladder to the tree. We 'walked' the mainline up the back of the ladder and then used a ratchet strap to pull it back and in to the upper drive hook. It worked pretty well!

[TapTapTap]

I have a run of ML for my CDL Sap Lifter that is pushing 25 ft above the lifter. It then runs about 450 ft down to my wet line before entering the releaser. This was my first year on this setup and it went okay. There are sags in the line which you'll have unless you have lots of posts. I cut a bunch of tall smaller diameter trees for posts with a good fork at the right height. I just put the post up against the ML. This wasn't perfect but it worked with probably a few sags but I can't really tell since its so high up.

And a good anchor is required on each end which of course won't be that great at 20 ft up. Make sure you pick a sturdy anchor tree. I have an 18" ash that works good. I put a snatch block at the anchor tree with a cable running from the end of my mainline back through the snatch block (attached to tree) to a boat winch attached to another tree. I'm able to winch the ML up or down, even all the way to the ground for off season storage. I don't like the idea of a line in the woods up that high. The winch is also used to tighten the line.

Here are some photos:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GdnbisWwUcTcKSCW8

Another thing I added this year was the Little Giant Multi-Position ladder. One side has adjustable legs so it can be used on uneven ground. I can't get to the high ML from the sap lifter but I used it in lots of other areas where it was just too high to work from the ground. Unfortunately, it is rather heavy.

I hope this helps.

Ken

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Pre-lashed mainline is nice for situations like yours. Too bad that it only comes in 1500' rolls if that is the case. To cut, just place 3 or 4 wire ties or hose clamps either side of the cut before cutting. There are a couple downsides to pre-lashed like installing traditional saddles. The hose clamp ones wouldn't be bad, but when we worked with it, we used the CDL swivel saddles and you had to wire tie then cut the spiral wrap wire to install a saddle. Kind of a pain- spin seal saddles are the way to go with pre-lash. Other downside is they use aluminum support/main wire to save on weight. It is very strong but if you ever need to do a repair, working with the aluminum is tough- harder to cut and not as flexible as traditional galvanized wire.

[Bricklayer]

Decided to go with the pre lashed mainline.
Going to hopefully save me a little time. And the price wasn’t too bad either.
Got a good deal on a box of 1” Mainline tension grips the ones that look like Chinese finger traps.
The electricians ordered the wrong size on a jobsite so I just happened to be there and bartered with some syrup and away I went with the box.
Have to figure out how to use them on the pre lashed mainline. But I’m sure I’ll figure it out.

[TapTapTap]

Decided to go with the pre lashed mainline.
Going to hopefully save me a little time. And the price wasn’t too bad either.
Got a good deal on a box of 1” Mainline tension grips the ones that look like Chinese finger traps.
The electricians ordered the wrong size on a jobsite so I just happened to be there and bartered with some syrup and away I went with the box.
Have to figure out how to use them on the pre lashed mainline. But I’m sure I’ll figure it out.

I'm not sure the tension grips will be that helpful. I think it would be best to use a rachet to the ML wire and anchor the wire at the other end. Tension grips will seem to add no value. As I indicated in an earlier post, I used a snatch block at the high end with a cable boat winch to have the same effect as the rachet.
Ken

[Bricklayer]

The tension grips are for the tubing. Not the mainline wire.
After my first tubing install 5 years ago And having to go back and cut all the ties and tension the tubing to keep it from curling around mainline I use these things religiously. Was paying $30 each last time I bought a couple.
I use them combined with an adjustable mainline wire tensioner and am able to loosen them or tighten them if need be.
Has made a huge difference in keeping the tubing straight.

[TapTapTap]

The tension grips are for the tubing. Not the mainline wire.
After my first tubing install 5 years ago And having to go back and cut all the ties and tension the tubing to keep it from curling around mainline I use these things religiously. Was paying $30 each last time I bought a couple.
I use them combined with an adjustable mainline wire tensioner and am able to loosen them or tighten them if need be.
Has made a huge difference in keeping the tubing straight.


I agree with the tension grips when you're hanging wire as a separate step from hanging and attaching the tubing. However, with pre-lashed, I don't think you'll need the tension grips. The tubing will not be curling around the tension wire since the lashing prevents this from happening, provided that the tension wire is tight and you secure the lashing at your ends before you make your cut from the reel.

If you don't secure the lashing at the ends then you'll need the tension grips but you'll also need to tighten up the lashing or end up tie wires which defeats the purpose of the pre-lash.

One suggestion I have for you is to make sure that the wire is on top through the entire run between anchor points. It's easy to not notice until you pull things tight.

Ken

[Russell Lampron]

I did this once to keep the mainline as straight as possible. I had to go over a wet area to do it and the mainline was 25' high at the upper end. I used ratchet straps to lift it into the end tree and secured it by making a loop with the mainline wire around the tree. At first I supported the mainline with pvc pipe and eventually used tie back wires to suspend it rather than support it. I tied the pipe to the mainline wire while it was on the ground which made that part of the install a lot safer.

The ladder work was tricky because most of it was done on soft ground. What I did worked but as I learned more about installing tubing I wished that I had gone around the wet area and ran the mainline closer to the ground. I was lucky, I didn't have to lift sap to the mainline. In my situation the lateral mains ran down into it even at the high end.

My recommendation would be to go around the low area if at all possible. It will make life a lot easier when it comes to maintaining it.

[collinsmapleman2012]

Ken, thats a brilliant idea with the cable. i'm going to try that out for my next addition, its quite high up a tree with a sap lifter at the bottom. what are you using for anchors in the top of the tree?
and second question- how do you like that cdl sap lifter? ive got a reverse slope extractor that works well but it needs babysitting, and i'm not around all the time for that, considering one of those in another year or 2.

ive got a pump out line for my electric extractor that is about 20 ft up, i strung the wire, tied it low, and added a couple slightly loose side ties to it. then i used a couple 2x4's to push it up the tree- if you have tubing on the end of all your wire around end trees this works really well, as long as there are no branches on the trunk. you may have to go up the ladder to tighten side ties, but if you make them with enough zig zag, you can get the whole deal in place and then tighten with a ratchet at the end. i've tied line 15 ft up in place before and it's not a lot of fun, especially when working on ice through wet areas, actually more dangerous than anything because the ladder is never stable.

[TapTapTap]

Ken, thats a brilliant idea with the cable. i'm going to try that out for my next addition, its quite high up a tree with a sap lifter at the bottom. what are you using for anchors in the top of the tree?
and second question- how do you like that cdl sap lifter? ive got a reverse slope extractor that works well but it needs babysitting, and i'm not around all the time for that, considering one of those in another year or 2.


It worked pretty well with over 400 taps on that run. I never had to do any fixes once I was set up. I bought the double (in parallel) pump without solar. I needed the extra head capacity so I converted it to double in-line which was a pretty easy re-plumbing of the pumps. I also modified a few things on the tank to fit my complicated intersection of tubing. And, I added a dry line rather than just the mainline shown on the CDL instructions. I pumped about 25 feet up. I did not have a lot of elevation to work with to get back to the extractor so I'm sure I had some sags but it still worked well.

The other thing I did with the sap lifter is to buy 2 spare pumps just in case. They cost less than $40 each and are good insurance. The good news is that I didn't need them.

On the snatch block system, I have a 1/2" lag-thread eyebolt with a forged eye (vs a bent-over eye). Just as important is the the mount for the boat winch. I have four 3/8" lag bolts. As you might have noticed from the photos, I used a heavy block of hardwood to move the winch away from the tree to allow room for the winch handle. And, I'm very cautious around the winch and lines since they have so much load.

For installing the 1/2" eyebolt I had access to a 60 ft manlift. I couldn't have reached with a ladder.


Ken