Electric Releaser Question

[woodsplumber]

I have 5000 taps running to a heated, remote pumphouse. It is about 1500 feet horizontal and 60 feet verticle downhill of my sugarhouse. I have a mechanical releaser, tank with a float switch, 1 hp pump and a generator to get the sap to my evaporator. It is pumped through a 1 1/2" line. I would like to convert my releaser to electric. Do I need to keep my tank and pump. or will a deep well submersible do the job without burning out?

[Tmeeeh]

We're pumping 2,500 feet and 150 feet up, over a hill, then 1,000 feet and 60 feet down to the sugar house. We use 1 inch pipe 160 psi rating. Pressure at the pump is about 150 PSI. Our electric releaser dumps into a tank and we pump from there. There is a float switch in the tank to turn off the pump. We turn it on manually. It is a three phase booster pump. About 100 gallons of sap drains back through the pump into the tank. If it didn't drain back the sap would freeze in the pipe. We have found that if the temperature is below freezing, and we try to pump the sap to the sugar house, the first sap going up the cold pipe turns to slush and plugs the pipe before it gets all the way to the sugar house. The pump could be turned on remotely but for us it is better to go there to check on how the rest of the sap collection system is functioning. We sometimes adjust the VFD to send the sap faster or slower depending on how much sap we need at the sugar house. Neither the tank at the sugar house or the tank at the pump house can hold a good run by themselves. This way we have two sap holding tanks that together have adequate storage. They are just 3,500 feet apart.

[upsmapleman]

I think the question you are asking is will the pump in the releaser pump your sap and elimate a pump. Would depend on 2 things 1st how much sap flow do you get. If you have a 10 gallon a minute pump and had 12 gallon a minute coming in no won't work. 2nd how much vacuum do you run. The more vacuum you run the slower the pump runs. I have a Lapierre electric releaser with 2, 25 gallon a minute pumps in it. When it runs hard and vacuum is say 27" they both run and don't put our any where near the full amount. For me no question dump into the tank and run a seperate pump. If you were just pumping from say the floor or another close building into the tank, It should work but when you ad head pressure it a different story.

[MapleCreekFarm]

I have the smallest Airablo electric releaser with an submersible pump. I pumped nearly 1000' horizontal and 20-30' up. It worked but towards the end of the season it seemed to not be pumping as well anymore. I'm not sure why. I only have 800 taps on it.

[TapTapTap]

I have the smallest Airablo electric releaser with an submersible pump. I pumped nearly 1000' horizontal and 20-30' up. It worked but towards the end of the season it seemed to not be pumping as well anymore. I'm not sure why. I only have 800 taps on it.

It's not clear how this can work when the temperature drops below freezing.

Ken

[Amber Gold]

I second TMEEH's opinion and what he does. Running vac, particularly high vac., reduces a pumps output capacity both in volume and TDH, so you're asking a lot out of a pump to both pump against vacuum and then pump it a long ways.

Also, I think TMEEH is a resource for running electric a long distance. You may be able to run an electric service to the woods tank and eliminate the generator. This could provide the power you need for the releaser, vac. pump, heater (which could be the waste heat from the vac. pump), and the sap transfer pump.

[ecp]

First. If you are going to move to a submersible pump I would recommend making sure the power never runs out (either a large tank on the generator or run permanent power)

Second I can tell you it will work just fine with the right sized pump in your releaser my guess off hand for you would be a 4 hp pump (or better yet 2- 3 hp pumps) and a larger pump line (i would recommend a 2inch pump line). I have helped a fiend do this and it works great. He does have a tank at the releaser that he can pump the sap into when it is close to freezing, and the catch the sap that drains back out of the lines so I would recommend keeping that in place. For his set up he just sucks the sap out of the tank back into the releaser and pumps it up that way when things are thawed. Generally speaking he does not pump the sap uphill unless it is 34 degrees or above (because who wants the headache of freezing). It works so well for him that once he got a monitoring system to direct the 2 valves he almost never has to go down to the releaser shed all season. fyi he is pumping 1600 feet with about 80 feet of elevation on a 2 hp pump in his releaser but only does about 1200 taps on it which is why I would say you need more pump. If his vacuum gets below 25 inches he is in the woods fixing it right away. I don't think you will have any issues as long as you get the right sized pump, pump line, and have a back-up for when it freezes.

[MapleCreekFarm]

It's not clear how this can work when the temperature drops below freezing.

Ken

I have an underground line so it never freezes. I buried the line when I ran the electric down to the woods.

I would also say that at the beginning of the season I was getting about 5-6 gpm flow on my pump that is rated at 10 or 12 gpm max.

[TapTapTap]

I have an underground line so it never freezes. I buried the line when I ran the electric down to the woods.

Now I see. That's a pretty major detail. it wouldn't work otherwise. I think one would still need to consider cover depth to prevent freezing and the transitions from below to above ground.
Ken

[wiam]

Now I see. That's a pretty major detail. it wouldn't work otherwise. I think one would still need to consider cover depth to prevent freezing and the transitions from below to above ground.
Ken

I have 1600’ of buried pump and vac line. Transition is no problem. Just has to be in a heated enclosure. Line is at least 5’ down. 7’ where I drive over in winter. Line has not froze in the 20 years I have used it. 1000 taps. Last year I went to electric releaser, pumping back to sugarhouse. Using 1/2 hp pump in the releaser. I use a mechanical releaser as a moisture trap. I believe it has dumped 3 times in 2 seasons from too high flow when lines were thawing. I can live with that.

[MapleCreekFarm]

I have 1600’ of buried pump and vac line. Transition is no problem. Just has to be in a heated enclosure. Line is at least 5’ down. 7’ where I drive over in winter. Line has not froze in the 20 years I have used it.

Mine is only 3 to 4' down, but I'm in NE Ohio not VT. The transition doesn't have to be in a heated enclosure, but that's by far the best. I took a 3' section of plastic culvert pipe and made an insulated cover for it and put it where the pipe comes out of the ground. It's worked fairly well but I did have some times when the sap lines let loose before the 15' sections above ground were thawed enough to pump much thru. I suspect that is why my pump got weak at the end of the season.

[woodsplumber]

Now that I have read some replies and though it through, I only want to pump into my tank and use my existing pump and system to transfer. I am considering doing the conversion to electric myself. I have an older Bernard(built 2001) model 215 single horizontal rated 6000 taps. Any advice on what pump and any details of the conversion?

[wiam]

https://supremewatersales.com/10sq05-160-96160140.html

That is the pump I use. Not big enough for you but this series pump is slow start and has low water and overheat protection built in. When running and even on start up it draws no more than 4 amps. Very important on my long buried line. Would think it would be good on a generator. Rated 10 gpm. Pumps 7 at my distance and under 28” vac. Checked with water and flow meter to make sure before I buried the wire. Not sure if this would be big enough for you: https://supremewatersales.com/22sq10-190-96160157.html

[wiam]

I added a 4” pump chamber under my releaser and wired up relays and float switches to run the pump