Auto Defoamer: Buy or Build

[Amber Gold]

I'd like to go the auto defoamer route. It'd make boiling easier and more consistent...also one less thing to keep track of. And, I'm considering going organic, so I understand an auto defoamer makes using organic defoamer more effective.

It seems like everyone now makes an auto defoamer...before it was just Lapierre/CDL. Is one better than another? What are their approximate costs? Prices aren't listed in the catalogues, so I have no idea.

Has anyone tried the dosing machines from Amazon as an alternative? Link below of an example. It doesn’t have the foam knockdown feature like the maple companies do, but if a defoamer cup is set in the flue pan, would that do an effective job of knocking down the high foam events? I’m guessing a dosing machine with defoamer cup is going to be much cheaper than a Lapierre/CDL unit, but would it work nearly as well??

Peristaltic Dosing Pump (https://www.amazon.com/Gikfun-Adjustable-Peristaltic-Metering-Analytical/dp/B08BX2CNSD/ref=sr_1_4?crid=177YT4AM61PLN&keywords=Peristaltic+Dosing+Pump&qid=1649275244&sprefix=peristaltic+dosing+pump%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-4)

Thanks for the input.

[ecp]

Hi there.

I am organic and let me say organic defoamer is not even close to as affective as synthetic defoamers so you are in the right head space for thinking about an impending problem. As with many things I would expect the cost for an automatic defoamer would depend on the size of your evap, but it would not hurt to get quotes. Personally (I was negligent on how ineffective canola oil would be) after my boil with canola oil I realized that something needed to be done. I just went and got a dripper from CDL for 100 bucks and put it in the float box. Once you use it 1 or 2 times its usually all set for the rest of the year. I do keep a squirt bottle handle but use that only towards the end when needed (1 or 2 times per night)

[DRoseum]

I used a small stainless ladle as an auto defoamer cup in my flue pan. Bend the handle to hook over the side of pan or flue dividers to set the height you want to knock down foam and fill it with organic/non-GMO sunflower seed oil. Works great. For larger pans you could put multiple in different spots that are prone to be where foam first starts building rapidly.

A $5 ladle was right for me and my size pans.... its cheaper than defoamer cups or systems and worked great all season. Just needed a safety net in case I was distracted dealing with RO...vacuum system...😀

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004FNQ3C2/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_ZXJ3NWBDRV2HMJ99ST0B?_encoding= UTF8&psc=1

[DrTimPerkins]

The key thing with any sort of defoamer system is to not overdo it. Use just the amount needed and no more. The tendency is to set it high and run it high all the time because that results in the least amount of foaming. It can lead to a defoamer off-flavor and funky (oily) mouth-feel in syrup however.

I have no experience with the dosing device you linked on Amazon, but the questions I'd think about are:
- will it work in the cold
- will it work when it's hot and wet (steamy)
- can the tubing deal with the heat inside the pan
- there is no way to have it pump out extra when needed (no sensor probe or mechanism to add more when foam is high).

In any case, it is cheap enough that it could be worth a try, but I really don't see any advantages for this over a dripper or a foam cup device. Disadvantages is that it takes electricity and may crap out on you at some point during the season.

[jrgagne99]

I hear the mechanical dispensers work pretty well. Can you set them to work on a small rig, say 1 drop every 10 minutes, or even less?

[Shaun]

I think these dosing pumps work by squishing a little tube with a rotating cam. This will likely fail somewhat often and maybe more in the off season from not getting used. This is at least my experience with them in multiple water treatment applications. I used ~2 ounces (atmos) to make over 500 gallons of syrup this year. It just doesn't seem feasible for small producers like me without adding way more defoamer than needed. Now if making 2 or 3 barrels an hour it's probably a different story. This is not saying I wouldn't like to automate it though.

[jrgagne99]

Sorry, wasn't clear with my post. I meant the drip-type units, not the peristaltic pumps. Can the drippers be set to 1 drip every 10 minutes?

[DrTimPerkins]

Sorry, wasn't clear with my post. I meant the drip-type units, not the peristaltic pumps. Can the drippers be set to 1 drip every 10 minutes?

They're highly adjustable (not sure you can adjust them that low), but the drip rate can vary during the run as the defoamer heats up and flows more freely. You just need to adjust it periodically (and remember to turn it on and to shut it off). You can't really dial in a set amount like that, but you can count the drips by eye with a watch and adjust it to whatever you like.

[Amber Gold]

Thanks for the input and it's all good stuff. Most of which I hadn't considered. If the drippers work just as well, I may just go that route...less stuff to go wrong with an electronic device.

The biggest thing I fight with is when I load the evap, particularly as the season progresses, the flue pan foams up. I immediately have to walk over and add defoamer to the flue pan. I think it's because of the sudden change in heat intensity. Sometimes I find that the foam will get high mid-firing, and I don't catch it. This makes the float high keeping sap from coming in, and flue pan running low. I was thinking that more consistent defoamer drips (i.e. something that takes me out of it) would make this less of an issue. If a mechanical dripper gets me mostly there, then great. If I need to add a defoamer cup for those high foam events, then that's fine too.

For the defoamer cups, do you use powder or liquid defoamer?

[Shaun]

For something cheap and easy, I grabbed a metal teaspoon measure for baking from the kitchen drawer. It is really thin and bent easy to hang right inside the hood. I put a few drops in it when starting up. I think it helps on those surprises every once in a while. I just use liquid in the teaspoon.

[DrTimPerkins]

Defoamer cups hang over the edge of the pan (you can vary the level by putting a bend in the handle). You can use either liquid or powder with them.

https://bascommaple.com/products/defcup

Good article on defoaming at https://u.osu.edu/ohiomaple/tag/defoamer/

[Amber Gold]

Thanks for the links and I'll look into it.

Appreciate the input.