What makes syrup organic?

[sawyer40]

I was just looking around ebay and seen organic syrup. Now I have wonder why is one guys homemade syrup organic and not the rest of us. My sap comes right out of the tree the same as the rest of you and I boil it and now it's syrup. What makes it organic? Isn't it all?

[Maplepro]

I am not sure about the States but here in Canada in order to call your syrup organic it has to be certified by a third party I think most of us would agree that most syrup is organic but I know up here that you may have to change some of the defoamer that you used and pan washing liquids i was on Bascom’s web site a couple of days ago and I see in Bruce’s corner he has a little write up on organic and also he is paying .20 higher a pound. So that may help you out.

[Maple Restoration]

Hi all interesting topic, there is a gent 15 miles down the road west of me here in northern Ontario he make 20 to 30 barrel’s of certified organic maple syrup per year and I asked him what was different from his syrup than mine and it goes like this from what I understood, (1) he pays to be certified by agri-food Canada, (2) he cannot use any chemicals to clean his equipment, (3) he is left to hot potable water and a scrub brush (4) all containers are to be S.S. and he cant have any lead and he is tested by inspectors every year. I’m not expert on the subject but it seams like a lot of work for .20 per lbs and last but not least I have found no difference in taste between my syrup and his.

[Bucket Head]

At the V.V.S. Maple Conference this year I listened to an organic producer tell about what's required here in N.Y. state. I don't have the time at the moment to type the highlight's of all the requirement's, but believe me, it's eye-opening!

You better have a lot of free time to waste on the bookwork, record keeping, cleaning process and schedule's of the equipment, making map's of sugarbush's, providing a history of pesticide's that were, or may have been used on the site's, notifying neighbor's and local government's of your status and what the D.P.W. might apply to the road's by your sugar bush's, keeping a detailed inventory of EVERY piece of equipment you have, etc., etc., etc.

The list of rule's goes on, and on, and on. It's ridiculous. Unless your trying to sell your syrup to the small percentage of folk's who are extremly picky about what they will consume, the "health nut's" as my friend call's them, it's not worth the aggravation.

You can't say your syrup is "organically produced" by law unless your certified organic. You can get in big trouble if you do. But you can say your syrup is an organic product because you don't add anything. It's all natural, unless you filter press it and add filter aid. Just tell your customer's that maple syrup is an organic product and you'll be safe.

I may still have the requirement's if anyone is interested. Anyone contemplating this really has to give it some thought before trying to become "certified".

As far as I'm concerned, it's time consuming enough just trying to make "pure maple syrup"!!

Steve

[thenewguy]

would syrup made out of sap from an R/O be considered organic still?

[tapper]

Organic syrup = job creation. Just one more ploy to include the do nothing bureaucrats. HeHeHe sorry about that just had to say it.

[sawyer40]

It's the truth

[Dave Y]

I was in the same seminiar as Buckethead. What he said is the truth. it is ridiculus. I dont have enough to do already. Going organic is not for me!

[325abn]

One can call themselves an Organic farm selling organic veggies without any type of certifacation untill one reaches the $5000/year in sales. Once you reach the $5K/yr mark you must get certified.

When I sell at the Farmers Market I do list my stuff as Organic and as far as I am concered it is. No chemicals what so ever are used. Weeded by hand and hoe. Fed with composted manuer and fish emulsion. Along with my veggies I sell my syrup at the market.

[royalmaple]

In Maine it is similar to what 325 posted, up till 5000 in sales and you can call anything orgainic, but once you go over that you have to be certified. And if you are selling any amount to anyone else that is going to put certified orgainic on the label then you need to be certified.

Another thing here is that if you tap anything 8" or smaller you can't be orgainic. I guess the little trees have a poison in them. THat makes no sense to me. I don't see what that has to do with organic status, but I can see following tapping guidelines etc for other reasons. Just not if your syrup is organic or not.

It's like they needed 15 rules and could only come up with 14, so what are we going to put in there, ahh ahhh, they can't wear green pants, no......, I know lets say they can't tap anything smaller than 8 inch trees. Yeah, that's a good one. And they can't pick up the sap with a truck that is still running cause you might set your bucket down on the ground and fumes from the exhaust will poison the sap in the bucket.

I could see being a clean operation, not adding harmful chemicals, and maybe the type of defoamer used, tree spraying. But some of the other garbage I feel is just that. Probably 99.9% of sugarmakers are very cautious of what they are doing and want to produce the best product available so on that alone should be enough to qualify you. Then of course they have to get you with a fee, I think annually.

[peacemaker]

filter aide is ok as long as it DE most organic farms use it as a dusting all it is is one cell organism . i sell mine as all natural no chemicals added i use peroxide instead of bleach to wash up works great just got to wear gloves makes your hands turn white peroxide is water and o2 so when in evap all u have is water pure water at that ... and defoamers i can see but like buckethead said roadside trees and hedge row trees have to be loaded with **** from either sprays on the field and roads ... iknow a organic farm he is battling with the dairy farmer now for years his corn and hay fields surrounds this fellas 200 acre farm some fields are above his and in the spring the run off runs right across ... so where is the organic in that ...and organic milk is a joke my brother in law tried tobecome a organic dairy farmer it was take him 8 years and he doesnt spray or growth hormones or anything he wasnt gonna be able to even let his cows out to pasture .. he had to buy organic feeds figure out he was gonna loose money for 8 years before he could sell his milk for more money stupid he asked the organic "specialist "why do it then he said most guys do just before the sell out so the herd was worth more ...


stupid just to put a label that means the same as my natural one means i dont use chemicals or alter my crop no gmos no pestides no lead just GOD golden syrup from the tre to you


AMEN

[gmcooper]

We lost a good wholesale account here a few years ago to an organic producer. The only thing different in the syrup was they use an RO and we don't. The only other thing different was they were slinging the "organically composted manure" about 10' deep. I'll tell you he knew about more chemicals that we were using here that I had never seen here. Must have been the night cleaning shift that came in dumped industrial waste here while I was sleeping. A manager at the market told us the whole story. He couldn't believe what he had been told but the big boss wanted organic syrup regardless afterward.

At that time the Maine organic maple rules were just kind arbitrary crap some one pulled out of the sky. I did have a copy. Like Matt said they kept adding till they got enough rules. It also helped if you were a maple producer trying to become certified and you were helping writting the rules.
I think the rules may have changed some with the new federal laws. I would also guess it was easy to stay certified and nearly impossible for a new guy to get certified. Since you can't apply raw manure to certified organic lands, who picks up the deer and squirrel droppings and composts them?
By now you must have an idea on my thoughts on organic.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

.20 cents a lb wholesale , what does it sell for retail by the pint/ quart???

RICH

[Bucket Head]

I felt the need to comment on this subject again, as it irritate's me when I think about it or discuss it.

The "certified organic" status is a farce! I agree that it is just another money and red tape generator for a third party that has nothing else to do.

The only, and I mean only way that it would be worth the trouble would be if you were lucky enough to sell your syrup to several "health food" type store's. Store's that cater to the small percentage of people that are very picky about what they will eat and have no problem paying an inflated price for the product. Their out there, you just have to decide if you want to try and get any of their business. As far as I'm concerned, I do just fine selling my "regular" syrup to "regular" folk's, without any "instruction" from a useless third party.

That whole seminar that I listened to was mind boggling!

One of the rule's that he talked about that stand's out in my mind at the moment was the cleaning schedule and cleaner's that are "approved". He did not say what cleaner's to use, he just said there are only certain one's that the organic people allow. WHAT???!! So your trying to tell me organicly produced syrup is better than my syrup because of the detergent I use to keep the equipment clean? Are not all soap's, detergent's, cleanser's, dish detergent's, etc. for food/kitchen use FDA approved? When did this organic third party become smarter, and rank higher than the FDA? When was the last time a customer asked you what cleaner you were using? And if one of them did ask, did they agree or refuse to buy somthing because of your soap?

Guy's, just tell your customer's that maple syrup is an organic product. Nothing added, unlike the fake store bought stuff. Mother Nature provide's it, we just help to get it to your pancake's.

What will the beekeeper's have to do for certification? Chaperone each bee to every flower to verify that it is an approved flower?

I could go on and on about this. It is a very aggravating subject for me. I have to sign off now. My blood pressure is up.

Steve

[brookledge]

I you have any road side trees or trees in peoples yard there is no way you can garantee that there is no chemicals being applied. Not only in fertilizers and herbacides for lawns and fields but deicing chemicals used to keep the roads clear in the winter.
Keith

[Dave Y]

Buckethead,
Dont get your blood presure up over organic, it is not worth it. You need to just come to terms with the fact that you are not willing to abide by some arbitary rules that are set down by a third party that is superior to the rest of us regular folks. in case you didn't catch the tone superior was sarcastic.

[New Hope Mapleman]

I've been watching this thread to see what is said and now I can't keep quite!

As sugarmakers 99% of us (not an exact number) can claim "all natural" but not Organic unless we meet a few extra criteria!

I am well aware of what the guy said in Verona in the "Going Organic" class! I believe the defoamer and the pan cleaner (how you flush etc.)are the biggest issues! If you are using Atmos 300K or some other commercial defoamer-you are using a GMO! Check it out for yourself! As far as the third party setting the rules-what is allowed and not allowed is not set by them but rather by the government. The third party is only the inspector/enforcer.

You guys are right if your tapping some guys trees from his yard you might not know what he put on the lawn! These are all things you have to consider!

As to the "CRAZIES COMMENT"-there are some folks that have reactions to chemical residues & GMO's or animal based products even in the slightest amount! GOD FORBID that one of us should call them crazy for realizing what their body reacts to! The whole ORGANIC Market was based on these people and we as producers need to understand them! The government albiet slow at enforcing will protect them. I personally don't want to exclude any type of customer from my base!

PLEASE DON"T GET MAD at me for saying this, but it needed to be said!

[Dave Y]

The government is the third party and I trust them about as far as I will trust a thief.

[Bucket Head]

Dave Y.,

I understood your tone.

New Hope Mapleman,

I think you have misunderstood who I'm directing my complaint's to.

First, I commend anyone who has successfully gained the certification. It is a hard earned accomplishment. Only a very patient person would agree to jump through all those hoop's and go through that much red tape.

Second, I am in no way complaining about the folk's out there with food alergy's. I am not quite sure how any of my word's, or any other's in this thread, sounded like they were putting down those who were intolerant of something.

I am saying that the hoop's, hurdle's, and red tape that is imposed by the organic certification people is simply over the top. Many of their rule's are unneeded and unreasonable.

The "last straw" for me was how the certification was almost lost due to the "unmapped bucket's" in your front yard.

I am a very reasonable person, therefore I have little patience for unreasonable people, and their comment's or action's. If stripping you of your certification because of some tap's and bucket's that children put up during an open house is not unreasonable, tell me what is.

I wish you well with your organic maple operation.

Steve

[jemsklein]

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070903104947AARHbKoi just found this when i was looking for maple flats poster and its a good gigle would some one please tell them what the diffrence is