A filtering Mystery

[levic900rr]

Hi Folks! Im a back yarder here is my set up.

10 buckets, DIY RO and a 2x2' grimm finishing pan. I pull the pan and finish in the house.

My filtering process is:

Filter off the grimm pan through a synthetic cone filter lined with 3 "paper" cone filters.

I then finish it off in the kitchen (I dont have a hydrometer so I bring it to 221 on my Thermapen. I've done some testing with a friends hydrometer and this is typically the temp where it is just right)

Then I do the same filtering as I can it into Ball jars.

This has worked really well for several seasons now but this year I am getting a different result. Everything is cloudy, but not that "sandy" cloudy that settles out like I can't see ANY particles in the syrup its just "muddy" looking.

I did some research between last weekend and this weekends boil and I read a bunch about people canning too hot (I've never paid attention to the temp while bottling). So this weekend I was very careful to let the syrup cool down to below 190 before the final filter / bottle.

Same result. This is a picture of this years vs last years, exact same process.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iLatbsgPxQKHzfNC9

Any ideas?

[Ed R]

If you have any de(diatomatious earth) add a little to your heated syrup before filtering through the cone filters. I've had this problem in the past and it seems to help.

[Galena]

If you have any de(diatomatious earth) add a little to your heated syrup before filtering through the cone filters. I've had this problem in the past and it seems to help.

@ levic900rr....yeah I've also had the odd batch of suspended nitre. Looks more like peach jam. Usually I just tried to reheat it and refilter. Sometimes it helped, sometimes it made no difference.

But curious about Ed R's solution...what does the diatomaceous earth do? Does it help settle the nitre?

[maple flats]

The DE is then the filter, it traps the niter and helps to keep the niter from plugging the filter itself. DE is considered the best filter in the world. The felt or synthetic cone or flat filter and all pre-filters you are using just catch the DE which then filters the syrup. Be sure the use food grade DE, get it from a maple dealer (or a local maple producer), it comes in 40# bags and that size would last a backyarder for about 200 seasons or more. All you need is 1 cup for the first gal and 1/2 cup for each additional gal in a batch. Don't try to re-use, dispose of it (or spread it in your garden) after filtering a batch. If you filter another batch, start fresh.

[Galena]

@ maple flats Thanks for the explanation, but how about setups that are much more primitive? I use paper coffee filters in stainless steel funnels. Pretty sure I have food grade DE.* So would I just put some (prob about a tsp or so) DE in the filter then run the syrup through it?

[Ed R]

It helps for the same reason you use it in a filter press, to provide a proper/better filtering media. I've had issues in the past with brand new Orlon cones plus one or even 2 prefilters passing this ultra fine mud/sand. Adding a 3rd prefilter took care of the problem but slowed down filtering considerably. Adding de with just one prefilter was the ticket. If you have any of what I would consider normal course sugar sand during the season I've saved some of this in the freezer during the same year and added it to late season nonfiltering syrup and that has worked as well.

[Galena]

Thanks Ed R, Giving it a try now, with my salvage batch (which is just what it sounds like, the last few dregs of syrup-laden nitre that just won't filter out) and a single coffee filter with about 1 tsp DE in it.

Don't imagine that the DE also stops the filters from eating all your syrup too, or does it?

[levic900rr]

Interesting... I'm willing to give it a shot for sure, any idea why this just started happening? I've used this same filtration set up a few years without this result. I actually bought a new Orlon filter this year and used my old one for the second batch just to make sure there wasn't something wrong with the new one. Looks like Ace Hardware carries food grade DE. I'll check it out and report back.

[shedhunter]

Every year I get the same thing. There is always one batch that won't filter. It plugs up the filter constantly and even what goes through is cloudy. It's usually at the end of the season but sometimes it happens early and goes away. I've learned not to fight it, and as soon as I see it plugging up the filters I quit and let the batch cool instead. Let it sit for a couple days and then pour off the top. I then re-heat and filter that with much better success.

[johnallin]

Difficult filtering with late season syrup is common.
You should be able to purchase 5-10 lb bags of DE from a maple dealer as many break down the big bags for smaller producers.

[maple flats]

@ maple flats Thanks for the explanation, but how about setups that are much more primitive? I use paper coffee filters in stainless steel funnels. Pretty sure I have food grade DE.* So would I just put some (prob about a tsp or so) DE in the filter then run the syrup through it?
Galena, I don't know if coffee filters will stop the passage of the DE. If they will, that should be good, if not as I suspect, then it would not be a good method for your operation. Sorry about the vague answer.

[Galena]

Galena, I don't know if coffee filters will stop the passage of the DE. If they will, that should be good, if not as I suspect, then it would not be a good method for your operation. Sorry about the vague answer.

Well so far the DE in the bottom of the filter doesn't seem to be hurting, lovely clear clean syrup filtering quietly through :-) Just wondering if DE though itself also absorbs syrup at all. And what exactly des DE do to nitre? Anything?

[DrTimPerkins]

DE is inert silica and doesn't add or subtract chemically from syrup or have any chemical effect on niter. Niter doesn't "stick" to it, but rather gets trapped in it. DE forms a "cake" of particles which liquid can pass through, but niter will get trapped in (kind of like a rabbit won't get caught in the briar patch, but the fox does). Like any liquid, syrup will coat the particles to some degree. DE generally requires a continuous formation of the cake to trap the niter as it builds...otherwise niter will build up near the surface and clog up the process. As the cake of DE builds, the niter is trapped within it.

In pressure press operations, it is customary to run hot water through afterwards to "desugar" the press and recapture the sugar to recirculate back to the pans or a sap tank. Very little loss of sugar that way. You should be able to do the same with your coffee filters. Just add some hot water and add the filtrate back to your sap tank. Since you don't have any pressure like we use in a plate or cannister press (or vacuum in a vacuum filter), DE might help a tiny bit with gravity filtering, but not much.

The following might be useful. https://mapleresearch.org/pub/m1017insert/

[Lanark]

Is it possible to add too much DE? I made a homemade filter press and use a 5 HP shop vac, I then tried to filter 4 gallons of syrup which I added 1/4 cup DE for each gallon and I'm having a terrible time filtering.

[levic900rr]

Thanks everyone for the info. I bought some DE today and I'm going to try heating, re-filtering and re-bottling a half gallon tonight. If it works I'll re-do the other 3 gals I've made this year. If not I guess I'm just stuck with cloudy syrup this time around.

[DrTimPerkins]

Is it possible to add too much DE? I made a homemade filter press and use a 5 HP shop vac, I then tried to filter 4 gallons of syrup which I added 1/4 cup DE for each gallon and I'm having a terrible time filtering.

So I am assuming that rather than a filter press (which uses plates and PRESSURE) that you built a vacuum canister filter (which uses suction). You may not need to use DE at all, but generally your filter media (prefilter + filter pack) and suction level determines how well and how much you filter. Adding a little DE may help, but may not. Four gallons is probably a bit too much to expect from the filter depending on its size and those other factors. HOT syrup is key to most types of filtering.

[levic900rr]

Well the DE didn't help me at all... I took 2 quarts and heated it up to 185, mixed in 2 TB's of food grade DE and sent it back through my cone filter set up (5 micron Orlon cone lined with 3 paper pre filters). I'm pretty sure its worse now... Looks like I'll have to live with it this year, or bring my entire batch to one of the bigger shops around here and see if I can get them to filter it for me :)

[BAP]

Well the DE didn't help me at all... I took 2 quarts and heated it up to 185, mixed in 2 TB's of food grade DE and sent it back through my cone filter set up (5 micron Orlon cone lined with 3 paper pre filters). I'm pretty sure its worse now... Looks like I'll have to live with it this year, or bring my entire batch to one of the bigger shops around here and see if I can get them to filter it for me :)
2 tablespoons is not enough DE. You need this year 3/4-1 cup of it to be affective on 1/2 gallons of syrup.

[levic900rr]

WOW Really!!! that much. Do I stir it in real good? Or just let it clump up on the top?

[johnallin]

Stir it in really good, ideally it would be the first through the filter.

Not sure how it would work with a vacuum press, as you only get one pass through the filter and it takes 3-5 minutes to happen on a filter press, but you want the DE in suspension in the syrup and build up on the filter.

One solution may be to mix DE with hot water, pull that through first to build a "cake", empty the water and then pull syrup through?

[Sugarmaker]

Folks,
Could the OP's problem be that he is reheating the syrup too high (maybe above 200F) during canning?? Did the process / temps change from the clear syrup on the right to the cloudy syrup on the left??

Question on sugar sand:
So If I have filtered syrup (clear at room temp) and I heat that syrup to 240F to make a confection, doesn't it produce additional sugar sand that will be in the value added product??
Regards,
Chris

[levic900rr]

Folks,
1-Could the OP's problem be that he is reheating the syrup too high (maybe above 200F) during canning?? 2-Did the process / temps change from the clear syrup on the right to the cloudy syrup on the left??

Question on sugar sand:
So If I have filtered syrup (clear at room temp) and I heat that syrup to 240F to make a confection, doesn't it produce additional sugar sand that will be in the value added product??
Regards,
Chris

1)I never reheat it above 185.
2)Nope, exact same process as last year.

I cleaned everything up yesterday since I had 60 gal of sap go bad on me this week (it got pretty warm here for a few days) and the trees are started to swell a bit. One thing I noticed is the bottom of my pan feels really rough, Im starting to think maybe I had more build up on the pan than other years. I usually don't do a full clean of the pan between boils but maybe that had something to do with it.