Cleaning 3/16 lines on vac

[bryankloos]

Hey All,

I have 6 runs of 3/16 heading out from a shureflow 4008 vac pump.
Each line is maybe 500' with ~20 5/16 drops with CVS taps.

I need to pull all my taps and wonder what's the best technique to keep the lines clean over the off-season.

In the past I've drawn peroxide into the line from the last tap, under vac, but the fluid flows fast with an open end tap and I'm unsure about effective contact time.

I would think drawing peroxide into every tap would be a major PITA.

WRT the CVS, do I simply cut them now and leave an open drop, cut and stuff into the Tee, or leave the CVS intact?

In the past I've replaced the CVS each year.

All help and wisdom is appreciated.

Thanks,

Bryan

[DRoseum]

Here is the process I just used for my shurflo and aquatec vacuum 3/16 lines with CV spouts (youtube video forthcoming):
(1) isolate lines so only 1 is under vacuum
(2) pull top taps starting at top of that line. Let vacuum pull it dry.
(3) repeat for each line.
(4) mix up hydrogen peroxide solution (start with 12% food grade and mix 3 parts permeate to 1 part peroxide to get 3% solution)
(5) use your diaphram pump to pump that solution UP the line. The aquatec works better for this since it has a higher psi cutoff and can easily push the solution up over hundreds of feet of elevation (~45 psi per 100 feet).
(6) start at bottom of line and depress the ball in the CV spout on the bottom tap to allow drop line to be flushed out for 10 - 30 seconds and then push spout into cup/cap
(7) move to next spout and repeat step above until you get to the top of the line.
(8) turn off pump and cap end of line.
(9) leave in place with solution inside for as long as you want (days) then drain and coil it up until next year.

This assures the entire line and all drops/spouts were flushed and you have LONG contact time. I then cut off my spouts when I hang the tubing the following season.

One tip... I used a "smart" outlet by Wyze so I could remotely turn off the pump from a phone app when I got to the top of the line. Alternative would be to have a helper and call/radio them to turn it off.

[M&M Maple Grove]

Krueger Norton put out a good video on cleaning the 3/16 lines

https://youtu.be/RlxsCiI5Ano

In addition, a detailed installation video.

https://youtu.be/QQX9L1KnBh8

He gets a lot of credit as a pioneer on the 3/16 gravity but he clearly states in the videos that he got all his information from UVM and their studies. Somehow, that always gets lost in translation. He did a great job however, getting the information out there.

[DrTimPerkins]

He gets a lot of credit as a pioneer on the 3/16 gravity but he clearly states in the videos that he got all his information from UVM and their studies. Somehow, that always gets lost in translation. He did a great job however, getting the information out there.

Thank you for noting that. Yes...Art Krueger has done a great job of spreading that info out, but you are correct in that it was all derived from several years of work at UVM and Cornell to jointly research and test a non-sodium chlorine cleaning solution. Art just got the word early from a phone discussion with Dr. Abby van den Berg (UVM) and jumped onto it quickly. It is one of the drawbacks of doing thorough research that we feel we have to withhold results until we have at least 2-3 years of results under our belts before talking about them publicly. Then it takes a little while to analyze, write it up for publication, and do presentations about it.

[SeanD]

I picked up a lot of great tips from that video when it first came out and I think it has made a huge difference in my yields. One of the things he does at the 20:00 mark is sanitize old drops with spouts still on - including check valves. I did that for a few years, but I since learned from Dr. Tim that the check valves can not be sanitized completely and that I'm better off replacing them each year. So, now I sanitize the drop with the squirt bottle like Art does, but I cut the spout off after the drop has had enough contact time.

[DRoseum]

Here is the video of my process. Very similar to Art's / UVM'S technique of pumping cleaning solution UP the line vs injecting it at every drop. This process allows max contact time and I can hold the peroxide solution in the tubing for days to ensure good sanitation.

https://youtu.be/FUrzZQOcyb4

[M&M Maple Grove]

I use a similar method to yours. I believe the one Art demonstrated is specific to a natural gravity system without having use of a pump.

[M&M Maple Grove]

Latest video update from Art Kruger:

https://youtu.be/6JotXn9asPo

The caps he is installing are called Stericaps by Lapierre. Not all suppliers are carrying them right now but here is a link to one that does:

https://shopmaplehollowsyrup.com/stericap-sanitizing-spout-cover-lapierre-bag-of-25/

Chlorine test strips:

https://www.amazon.com/Professional-Hydrion-Chlorine-CM-240V-Dispenser/dp/B010RHDJF8/ref=asc_df_B010RHDJF8/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312070574797&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4698857772050665682&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002527&hvtargid=pla-584628152795&psc=1

Zappit pool shock:

https://www.spa-daddy.com/Zappit-Pool-Shock---Cal-Shock-65-82976-sd.html?src=AdwordsProductListing&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0PWRBhDKARIsAPKHFGj3Bg9YFuSXdSus22V2 S2gA4kPLh_6tfkQbOVjIGOq0G9grP4_tcCYaAumlEALw_wcB

[DRoseum]

The stericaps seem to cost more than the seasonal spouts. Is there really benefit to spending more to clean the spouts than just replacing them every year?

Poly 3/16 seasonal spouts run around $0.20 per unit. These stericaps are $0.25 per unit.

I agree with Arts method of pumping the solution uphill and letting it stay in the lines for long contact time (but use peroxide instead), but it might be more economical to use the built-in caps for spouts on the drop line tees and replace the spouts every year.

[DrTimPerkins]

The idea behind using Stericaps and similar spout covers is that they are used with isopropyl alcohol (IPA). A small amount of IPA is injected into each spout/drop and left in place in the drop over the summer/fall. Supposedly the IPA volatilizes so that the vapors will sanitize the system in the manner of a "gas-phase sanitizer". I've never seen IPA described as a gas-phase sanitizer in any other literature other than maple...and our research doesn't show it functioning in that manner...but that is supposed to be the theory and practice.

NOTE THAT IPA IS NOT LEGAL TO USE TO CLEAN MAPLE TUBING SYSTEMS IN THE U.S.A.

Chlorine solutions don't act that way (unless it's chlorine gas). The only real gas phase sanitizers I'm aware of are chlorine gas (mustard gas), bromine gas, and ozone. Those things will kill microbes (and people) pretty effectively.

I haven't watched the video, so not sure what he's suggesting, but unless there is liquid inside the Stericap it wouldn't be especially effective. In general it comes down to contact time (and proper solution strength...stronger is not necessarily better).

Peroxide was one of the least effective and least economical of sanitizers we tested. Chlorine (either sodium or calcium) solutions were the best if you wish to go that route, but calcium-based bleach seems to be less attractive to animals (which is why we researched and selected that approach in the first place).

https://mapleresearch.org/pub/1019sanitation-2/

[M&M Maple Grove]

I believe the principle is you can reuse the stericaps every year and therefore saving money on replacements. The caps were being filled to the top with the chlorine solution off of the lateral and then plugged the tap. I found it intriguing and would be curious as I’m sure others to your opinion doctor Tim.

[DrTimPerkins]

The caps were being filled to the top with the chlorine solution off of the lateral and then plugged the tap.

That would sanitize the spout sufficiently. How are the drops being sanitized? While the spout is the most important, the dropline can also have a big impact on yield.

https://mapleresearch.org/pub/m0212tubingagesapyield/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/m1010sapyieldsagingtubing/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/mn214drop-2/

[M&M Maple Grove]

That would sanitize the spout sufficiently. How are the drops being sanitized? While the spout is the most important, the dropline can also have a big impact on yield.

https://mapleresearch.org/pub/m0212tubingagesapyield/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/m1010sapyieldsagingtubing/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/mn214drop-2/

The mainlines are flushed with water from the collection point to their drain valves. Next, the laterals are flushed by opening the highest tap on each one. Calcium hypochlorite solution at 400ppm is then pumped up the mainlines and into the laterals to their highest points(same as flush). That is when they start removing taps working their way up or down the line and testing the stream flowing out with a chlorine test strip to confirm that the solution has made it to the site. The procedure is to then fill a stericap to its brim and place the tap as it’s flowing into the cap to lock and seal it. Mainlines were drained and flushed at the end of the summer. Due to the chlorine breaking down within a week from exposure to the sun, laterals and drops were left and flushed during the first sap run and dumped.

Another benefit of the procedure is a “one and done” while removing taps.