Why some trees produce more sap than others

[mass maple]

I don't know if this is the right place to post this but I do question why some trees produce more than others. I have some small red maple trees that put out more sap then the bigger trees. They get the same light amount, no other trees to shade them. Any good threads on this subject? Could not find it in the search engine.

[bill m]

The same reason some people are tall and some are short - genetics.

[bigschuss]

Besides genetics, I would imagine many other factors come into play....tree age, local soil conditions, soil pH, soil moisture, soil structure, root structure, etc.

[Greenfin]

This is a great topic.

I have been tapping over the past 10 years in three different states and this is my 4th year in MN. I have a urban super bush. I have to go around in my suburban neighborhood and ask people to tap their trees so I am hyper aware of the factors that cause trees to produce more sap then others. What I can’t figure out is why some trees produce almost nothing?

My best producing group of trees are all on the same street. They all lie next to a drainage area that catches runoff water. Most of the year it’s just grass right now it’s a creek.

My single best tree is on the top of a hill in the front yard a guys house who doesn’t water his lawn and the ground is dry even during the thaw.

More later.

[Galena]

Greenfin if any trees have burls on them, they would definitely absorb any sap. I tried tapping two massive reds that I have, but they were full of burls. I got very little sap from them and soon pulled the spiles. Drainage, direction of wind, temperature, soil conditions, age, size and so forth are all factors. But yeah if there any burls, that's a huge possible factor for relatively poor output. Also, if you've tapped those trees before, take note how the holes have healed up. I have a tree that heals up incredibly quickly, and others where the holes take a worryingly long time to close up. Hope this helps!

[maple flats]

This is a great topic.

I have been tapping over the past 10 years in three different states and this is my 4th year in MN. I have a urban super bush. I have to go around in my suburban neighborhood and ask people to tap their trees so I am hyper aware of the factors that cause trees to produce more sap then others. What I can’t figure out is why some trees produce almost nothing?

My best producing group of trees are all on the same street. They all lie next to a drainage area that catches runoff water. Most of the year it’s just grass right now it’s a creek.

My single best tree is on the top of a hill in the front yard a guys house who doesn’t water his lawn and the ground is dry even during the thaw.

More later.
Several years ago, when I was on buckets I had one very large sugar maple on a knoll that was about 4' vin diameter. Being fairly new to maple I put 3 buckets on it, each about 1/3 of the way around the tree. I had a northerly facing tree that filled the bucket and over flowed almost every day, all I had to test at the time was a short hydrometer, that only gave the results in 1/4 of a point. That bucket yielded 2.5-3.25% on many days while the other 2 buckets rarely yielded 1/3 to 1/2 bucket and about 2% sugar. The tree looked well balanced, no major limbs missing, and no sign of damage that I could see. As I pulled the buckets each year I did it after the leaves were about half size, and the leaves looked the same over the entire tree. I never did figure it out. Since I was gaining more and more taps, I gave up that lease because it only had 28 taps and I was then doing leases with 100 and 700 taps, besides that lease was about 4 miles out of the way from my other leases.

[fisheatingbagel]

I don't know if this is the right place to post this but I do question why some trees produce more than others. I have some small red maple trees that put out more sap then the bigger trees. They get the same light amount, no other trees to shade them. Any good threads on this subject? Could not find it in the search engine.

So many reasons. There are seasonal differences of course, although trees that run good one year tend to run better in other years too in my experience. Otherwise, soil, canopy, summer growing season conditions ( rain, sun, heat you name it).

[bigschuss]

Tree health of course can also play a role. Individual trees may have experience some kind of a mildew, blight, tar spot or any number of other diseases that could have stressed a tree. I suppose an insect infestation would do the same.

The question is like asking why do some people live longer than others. The factors are many...and complicated. There are generalizations that everybody can agree are good predictors. But there will always be outliers that don't fit the mold.

[mass maple]

Guess it's a mix bag on the best trees to tap. All my trees are red maple and the best tree in next to my driveway parking area and that could be it has no competition for water. My other good trees are near a pond with a brook going by that. I always try to tap under where the main branches are but that is what I was told by another hobbyist. I agree genetics probably comes in as well

[Sugar Bear]

As a Atlantic Salmon fisherman of some years now I have fished rivers in the Canadian Maritimes that salmon run in the spring and that salmon run in the fall. The generally accepted reason that some are run in the fall and some are run in the spring ( more commonly the case ) is that a catastrophic failure of one season ( flood scouring or drought ) leaves a secondary backup for possible spawning in another season.

The maple trees that don't give a drop year after year when I tap them in the spring make me wonder if they give lots of drops in the fall for kind of the same reason Salmon sometimes pick different seasons.

I notice last late November and early December had what seemed to be some excellent sap flow weather. Would have been a good year to test my theory on those stubborn trees.

[Galena]

....The maple trees that don't give a drop year after year when I tap them in the spring make me wonder if they give lots of drops in the fall for kind of the same reason Salmon sometimes pick different seasons.

I notice last late November and early December had what seemed to be some excellent sap flow weather. Would have been a good year to test my theory on those stubborn trees.

Sugar Bear, what species of maple are you trying to tap? Are they healthy with nice big full crowns when in leaf? I have some really big trees that understandably take a longer time to thaw and start producing, but they usually kick into gear 2 weeks after tapping.

[GWebb]

I'm in Kentucky so warmer climate may have something to do with it, but I had one tree quit producing while all others still going good. Pulled the bag, dump what little sap there was and there were two slugs that came out of it. I guess the tree said uh uh - no more sap this year. Never got anything more from the tree.

[DrTimPerkins]

As others have already noted, there are a lot of factors involved: tree size, tree canopy size, health, genetics, position on taphole, whether you hit any previously stained wood, etc.

[Ed R]

We have a bigger sugar maple close to the sugar house that never runs much sap till the last week or so of the season, then it continues pumping out sap even after we've pulled taps.

[Sugar Bear]

Sugar Bear, what species of maple are you trying to tap? Are they healthy with nice big full crowns when in leaf? I have some really big trees that understandably take a longer time to thaw and start producing, but they usually kick into gear 2 weeks after tapping.

I tap Sugars and Reds of every size possible, 50 sugars and 25 Reds. In the past I have become familiar with Reds frequently not running well on gravity and I now have a pump on the Reds this year and for the first time a collection barrel overflowed on me this year. And the system made it difficult for me to keep up with things. But every once in a while I find sugars on drops to buckets that are seemingly of decent size and health that do not run well. Year after year after year after tap hole after tap hole after tap hole.

My Red peak sap flow was 12 days ago. I would say the smaller size sugars was about 12 days ago too.

My large 36" sugars peak flow was this past run over this past weekend. So yea I'm spot on with you.

I have yet to encounter a large 36" sugar that has not had exceptional sap flow. i.e. they got that big for a reason. Both tapping over the past 7 years or for the 3 or 4 years I tapped back in the early 1970's.

One of the things that I have noticed with these outlying poor sugar maple producers having in common is that they reside on exceptionally steep slope ( difficult to stand/walk on ) with poor soil conditions which would be better suited for Oak and have 15" diameter trunks with as to be expected 15" forest competitive canopies. Other sugars of the same size and shape on less steep ground with no angulated roots entering the ground, just a short distance away produce 5 times as much sap in the course of a season.