tapping speed

[H. Walker]

I've seen on here about the proper speed to run your drill for tapping and the common concensus is the drilling should be slow. Does anyone have an actual rpm number? I have 2 gas tappers that I'm having tuned up and I was going to have the mechanic set them to the perfect speed, if there is such a thing. I know that he sets chainsaws to manufacture's spec. rpm's so it shouldn't be any different to set the tappers. Just an idea, anyone, any thoughts?

[802maple]

The biggest concern with me is not so much the speed of the tapper but the sharpness of the bit. A dull bit equals low sap yields.

[gmcooper]

The two new Canadian bits for battery drills have a paper with them that says use high speed. That varies a lot from one drill to another. It also states to have the bit contacting the bark before starting the drill. The first time I ever got directions with drill bits.
Mark

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I am curious on consenous here too as I use the new Canadian bit but I always tap on low speed with my cordless. Either way, those bits are awesome and worth the $ 20 @. In 15+ years of tapping, I have never broken a bit either and maybe that is because I tap on low speed.

[Brent]

OK guys, I'm Canadian and have no idea what a "Canadian Bit" is.

Could you give me a description or explanation of what makes it different from a regular home hardware twist drill ???

[royalmaple]

When you use the canadian bits the tree keeps making a sound like:



OK,eh, eh, eh, eh.

You stop drilling between 3-4 eh's.

[gmcooper]

Matt my hearing is not good ask my wife, but I'll take your word on it.

As I understand it the bits have a different bevel angle on the cutting edge and actually the twist is very sharp compared with a standard wood bit. There is also a small notch right near the point of the bit. The idea is to keep the bit cutting all the time with out mashing some of the wood. When you look at the wood grain in the tree after you drill hole top and bottom of the hole is a crosscut. The sides are more of a rip cut. The theory is these bits are designed to make the best cleanest possible hole.

Brent
As for the Canadian part of the name other than they now cost more I have no idea. They are in Bascom's catalog and web site if you want to look.

Mark

[maplwrks]

Matt------You're a smart A$$ hehehehe

[tapper]

Matt,

HaHaHa thats a good one eh

[royalmaple]

I have to throw one in once in a while to cheer everyone up or at least see who's paying attention.

Mark's got the more correct answer.

Are those the gold color tapping bits? I've had pretty good luck with them.

[gmcooper]

Gold eh? No wonder they are $20.00. Glen Goodrich talked this fall about having some made for him I assume to sell. Think he mentioned 1,000 and manufacturer needed to produce something like 10,000 just to bother with making them. 10,000 bits would last a while, eh?

Had to go look, mine are silver.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Matt,

These bits are completely silver and a little higher priced than the gold ones, at least they were.

[tapper]

I have always used the auger bits with the screw in the end to pull the bit into the wood. Always seemed to work fine and they drill fast. Am I wrong for using one of these bits? Do they tear the wood worse than a conventional bit? I paid the big buck for a tapping bit last year used it for one tap and threw it in a bucket. It just did not drill. It was twice the work and over twice the time to drill with that bit. Maybe thats the way it is supposed to be?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jon,

It takes about 3 seconds with one of the $ 20 Canadian bits on low speed with a battery drill and about 1/2 of that on high speed. They pull themselves into the tree, you just have to hold the drill steady and pull them out.

I used one of the auger bits for a few years when I was young and they worked fine and made a nice hole, but it took me a lot longer to make a hole that with one of the afore mentioned Canadian bits.

Best $ 20 I ever spent on anything maple. I know they are way overprice just like everything else maple, but considering what everything else costs, it is worth $ 20. This will be my 3rd season on the first one I ever bought and I bought a spare last year this is still new and has not been used. Due to how fast they tap and the clean hole they make, it makes batteries las longer too.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

TAPPER

was your trees frozen when you tapped??

RICH

[Father & Son]

I use high speed on my 18v Riobi. Like posted earlier have the bit against the bark when you start and be careful with the amount of pressure you put against the drill. These bits will pull themselves into the tree very fast. I put a piece of 5/16 tubing over the bit and only exposed 1 1/2 of the bit. That will act as a stop or depth guide.

Jim

[Jim Brown]

I took mind and tapped off 1 1/4 and then painted the rest white,run her in to the white and your done!
My two cents


Jim

[H. Walker]

Ok, we've decided that the " canadian bit" is best but is there anyone that can put a number on the speed, 300, 500, 700 rpm.

[802maple]

It comes down to what I said earlier, the right bit and a sharp bit are the key not the speed. When I was a pup and we tapped 3500 buckets by hand, I certainly didn't turn at 300 rpm and when we went to our first power tapper that ran directly off a chainsaw, that baby must have turned 3000 rpm's and we didn't show any difference in sap production as long as the bit was sharp.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Seems like some on here have broken a lot of bits, any opinion on it and is it because they tap on high speed vs low as I have never broken one I can remember but I have always tapped on low speed.

[Breezy Lane Sugarworks]

The only bit we have broken while tapping is because they don't like to hit the ground first when dropped while still in the drill.

[802maple]

I used to have a guy help me and he would break bits alot. I found after observing him was he wasn't very careful. Sometimes he would tap by reaching around a tree and not getting himself in line with where he needed to be so when he pulled it out he would be coming out on a angle or he would slip when he was tapping instead of getting himself set before drilling. I don't remember breaking a bit in a tree myself, now as Ryan said that has happened though.

[maplwrks]

We broke 3 of the new "canadian" bits last year. Most of the time, they broke when they fed themselves in so fast that we couldn't pull the bit out of the tree. These bits are awesome, they act much like a corkscrew. When we tried to reverse the drill, they broke.I'm going to buy mine out of MSC this year, cat# 81140196. I won't feel so bad breaking a $4.00 bit vs a $22.00 bit!
Mike

[gmcooper]

I did a little checking on the speeds for Ryobi drill 18v two speed Low speed 0-350 rpm no load, high speed 0-1300 no load. I have always used high speed but I know when tapping once you enter wood you are far from 1300 rpm. Never broke a bit tapping. Have dropped one or two. Had a friend snap one while pulling out on an angle.

[jemsklein]

I did a little checking on the speeds for Ryobi drill 18v two speed Low speed 0-350 rpm no load, high speed 0-1300 no load. I have always used high speed but I know when tapping once you enter wood you are far from 1300 rpm. Never broke a bit tapping. Have dropped one or two. Had a friend snap one while pulling out on an angle.

we use the same drill as you do and works great for the bits i have one i bought from a maple syrup Auction well it came with 500 hundred bucket spouts for $25 so we traded those spiles for the front pan on my new evaporator so for $25 i got a $22 drill bit and a $350 pan

[Father & Son]

Mike (maplwrks),

I bought 2 of the same bit (in 5/16) 2 years ago and was very pleased. Compared it to the $20.00 bit and I couldn't tell any difference, but I don't make drill bits for a living. They work great.

Jim

[H. Walker]

OK, I've got a Echo & Tanaka gas tappers and I'm going to get the mechanic to tune them up for optimum running. Then have him check the no load rpm of both for comparison. I'll let everyone know!

Also that is why I want to have them tuned up, I broke a bit last year when one stalled in the tree and it wouldn't pull out. I broke the $25 bit starting the tapper up in the tree.

[802maple]

I always take the tapper off the bit when I am going try to restart the tapper,and use my vise grips to take the bit out. In Mikes case I guess I never had one stuck that bad, these must really pull in.

[Dave Y]

How deep are you going into the tree to get it stuck like that? I go no more than 2" deep. If the bit is sucking in too fast for you put a stop on the bit.

[H. Walker]

How deep are you going into the tree to get it stuck like that? I go no more than 2" deep. If the bit is sucking in too fast for you put a stop on the bit.

I normally only go 2" at the most. I've tried the stopper thing but I like to get 1 1/2" of sapwood and I go from sugar maples with 1 1/2" bark to black maples with 1/2" of bark, so it was never set right.

802, taking the tapper off the bit sounds good but in the moment you think, ..... or maybe you don't think. And yes these bits do hold when the tree is running, the sap actualy acts like suction.

[325abn]

What is MSC?

[Maple Restoration]

Hi Guy’s Mike here just new to your site just checking out your thread on hold depth and Canadian bit’s, they work well I have been using the same ones for the last 5 years never broke one yet! For a cheap stopper we just use a peace 5/16th blue tubing the length of the bit minus the chuck depth slid it on the bit then cut it back from the tip to the desired hold depth. Work great and dose 2 things 1, its great cover to clamp onto if the bit dose get stuck and 2, it dose not ream out the bark of the tree. And lastly it’s cheap.

[ennismaple]

Seems like some on here have broken a lot of bits, any opinion on it and is it because they tap on high speed vs low as I have never broken one I can remember but I have always tapped on low speed.

Never broken a 7/16" bit. I've broken 2 - 19/64" bits tapping way above my head and not paying attention. Next thing you know it's buried to the chuck and there's no way to get that puppy out unless you've got reverse on the drill - which our Tanaka gas drills don't have.

[royalmaple]

www.mscdirect.com

[maplwrks]

This is the link to the bits I'll buy this year:
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=81140196
Mike

[325abn]

Why are regular high speed bits bad to use for tapping?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

There is nothing wrong with them and they are not bad, just when you use one of the afore mentioned bits, you wouldn't want to touh any other bit, at least any I have seen. These bits drill a clean, round and smooth hole in about 3 seconds on low speed with a cordless drill and about half that on high speed.

Mike, let us know how those work in comparison to what Bascoms sells. In the past, it has been stated the ones Bascoms sells are sharpened more than these bits??

[maplesyrupstove]

http://s263.photobucket.com/albums/ii150/maplesyrupstove/?action=view&current=DSC00001.jpg D@G drill bits they work real good .Used 7/16 drill bit for 4 years and the 5/16 last year. In and 18 volt drill.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I did tap this year with my 18volt on high speed as I got aprox 220 taps on a cold day out of 1 battery. It had been about 18 hours since battery was charged and the temps were below 30. I was using the Canadian tapping bit from Bascoms(19/64"). It takes about 2 to 3 seconds drill time per hole.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

TAPPED TODAY WITH 18 VOLT DRILL ALSO/ 25 5/16 AND 173 7/16 USED 1 BATTERY AND STARTED ON THE 2ND. I WAS VERY PLEASED HOW GOOD IT WORKED also on high speed

RICH

[royalmaple]

I bought one of the lapierre 20+ buck super sonic drill bits. I have to say, it does drill a great hole. I did almost 400 today 19/64, and still had life in the second 18v dewalt battery. Would have been nice if I put them on the charger at the pump house. Holes are clean and it drills quickly. I did like the instructions say, high speed and it does great. If anyone is thinking about getting one they seem to be worth the money to me.

[maplecrest]

hey matt i am useing a canadian bit drills great clean holes in sugar maples but not so clean holes in soft maples any ideas. seems to rip the smooth surface of the tree. do i need to use a faster speed?

[Russell Lampron]

Jeff I have the same problem with smaller reds. It doesn't matter if I use the Tanaka or the cordless. I think it is just the soft bark. The holes seam to seal good just the same.

Matt I use the 5/16" Canadian tapping bits. They are fast! Well worth the $21.00 in my book.

Russ

[PerrinFarm2]

Well I guess that i'm about the only one left Tapping by hand. We use 7/16th bits and have no problems, a good sharp bit and its about 4 or 5 revolutions and your deep enough. I did break one bit this year. don't know quite how, I had finnished drilling and was pulling the bit out when the bit broke off right at the tree. Still need to go back and get it out. I really don't mind tapping by hand. I really don't think that it would go any faster with a cordless.

-Ben

[gmcooper]

Perrinfarm2

I'll give you credit with 700 buckets and using a bit brace you don't back away from work that's for sure. Try one of those Canadian bits. They come in 5/16 and 7/16". use a good cordless drill on high speed and you will notice a big difference. Good luck on your 08 season!
Mark