insulating your pans

[VA maple guy]

I've been thinking about insulating the outside of my pans. I have my leader 2x6 set up under a shed style roof, there no walls to keep any wind or breezes off of it. I thought about wrapping a piece of ceramic blanket around both pans and going about half way up. has anyone ever tried
anything like this and if they have what % increase in gph if any did you see.

Gerry

[Father & Son]

Gerry,
I would think that the surface area of the sides of the pans compared to the wind blowing over the top of the pans would be minimal. Maybe 2x4 framed walls covered with tarps to block the wind would make a bigger difference. I know that on a windy day when I open the sliding door on the sugarhouse the added breeze will really kill a good boil.

Jim

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

I would lean to makeing a better shelter , walls of some kind

RICH

[RileySugarbush]

Outdoors in on a cold day I think it could make a difference. More with wind than without. We do everything we can to increase the temperature of the bottom of the pans and do little about the sides. Though the area is much smaller, it could be significant. Even with a shallow depth of sap, consider that the splashing up on to cold side walls chills that bit of sap quickly.

A quick test would be to add some insulation in the middle of a boil. I'd try some cut panels of 1" foil faced foam insulation, strapped around the pan and observe the change in boil characteristics. Make sure that the radiant heat from the stack doesn't burn the strap or bungee. There s no reason to insulate the pan on the stack end since there is good heat there anyway.

All that said, I'm sure glad I moved into a shack last year.

[Brent]

We boiled outside on our Leader Half Pint for two years, on our porch and often had too much wind to make it comfortable. The was a very noticeable difference in the boil rate around the outside 1 1/2" of the pan.
In my opinion cut the wind first, then insulate. I'd stay with the ceramic non-flammable blankets

We're moving indoors this year.

[brettgrant]

Where do you find ceramic blankets? I'm setting up a 2X6 this year and am wondering if I can use ceramic blankets or boards instead of fire brick.
Brett in CT 100 new taps

[325abn]

Where do you find ceramic blankets? I'm setting up a 2X6 this year and am wondering if I can use ceramic blankets or boards instead of fire brick.
Brett in CT 100 new taps


I got mine off ebay.

[Jim Brown]

brettgrant; Most any of the dealers have it . Get it from the Maple Guys they are the ones that give us this great forum to vent on and learn from!

Jim

[Uncle Tucker]

I got some blanket from Maple Guys. Chris has good prices and great to work with,,,,,and he and Kim run this site.

[MaplePancakeMan]

Whats the deal with the arch boards, can that be used in place of firebrick? and whats the difference. Right now i have firebrick but it will need to be redone next year. If archboard can be used it would make the arch a heck of a lot easier to move. I assume there might be a difference between oil burning and wood burning arches? Mines a wood burner.

[peacemaker]

i lined my homemade oil tank 2x6 with the archboard but it needs to be covered i used the thin fire bricks at a full boil and 8 hours in you can still lay your hand on the outside ... the archboard is good gor 1800 degrees bbut will break down
a cooper paenny burns at 1200 so next good boil lay one in the if u see green flames shes above 1200

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Archboard would need to be covered by firebrick in a wood arch and ceramic blanket in a oil fired arch. Even if the temp wasn't hot enough which it is to break it down, the wood would damage it quickly.

[Ahnohta]

What temperature does a newer copper covered aluminum penny melt at???

[Brent]

I'm getting a new evap in a few weeks and this archboard sounds interesting, but I've never heard of it before this post.

Could someone please tell me what it is made of and where you get it.

[super sappy]

Most dealers sell it. I know that maple pro has it in the catalogue or try www.thermafiber.com-ss

[MaplePancakeMan]

Thanks for the Info guys, would archboard with thin firebrick be much lighter than the fire brick i use now?....i use the thick brick on the sides thin on the bottoms.

[RileySugarbush]

Archboard hardly weighs anything compared to brick, so board plus split bricks would weigh about half of full bricks wherever you replace them. You only need bricks in the firebox. In my home built 2x6 arch, I have full bricks over 1" arch board in the firebox, nothing below the grates and in the flue I have 1" ceramic blanket on the sides and bottom, no bricks at all. That is plenty of insulation.

[MaplePancakeMan]

Really, no bricks in the flue just blanket... how many of you do this and will that really insulate enough. I would jack all those bricks in a heart beat.. this things a pain to move.

[Brent]

reading the data from Thermafibre, I think the stuff they make could possibly have better insulation characteristics per inch of thickness, than firebricks.

The only danger is that you might toss firewood in too far and damage it. I'm thinking of using in the new evap I've got coming and I might lay a sheet of galvanized on top to protect it.
It is a non weight bearing product but I think it would easily not collapse with a sheet metal liner for protection.

Bascom sells what they call Archboard in 1" x 1' x 3' sections for $ 7.75
Any know where to order ThermaFibre stuff ?
Will they deal direct on small quantities ??

[tuckermtn]

I used the archboard all over the fire box and up the ramp of my arch...and then bricked on top of/inside of the board...

I looked around last fall to find a distributor/dealer who would sell the archboard for less than Bascoms...most places I called (in the Boston/SE NH area) did not stock the board...and the ones who would order some, would tack on shipping- so it came out close to what Bascoms sells it for...and you had to order a pallet of the stuff or something like that...I bought mine from Bascoms...

but there might be a CDN distributor who would do better...

-tuckermtn

[RileySugarbush]

Really, no bricks in the flue, just 1" of ceramic blanket. The stuff is amazing. The sides of my flue never get terribly hot. 1" of blanket insulates far better than a full brick. If you can follow the link in my signature you can get a look at the bricks in the box and blanket in the flues.

[Uncle Tucker]

I just finished bricking my new arch. I used rock wool instead of arch board (from what I heard it is the same stuff) because I got it on construction sites, for free. The rock wool measured 15”x48” and 4” thick, so I just pulled it in half. I ended up with 2” of insulation and then I put full firebricks in front of that. With the extra insulation, I had to take out one grate. I put a blower under the floor (wood floor) to make up for a smaller but more efficient fire. I also have an extra grate just in case. I don’t know how this will work because I am still waiting for my roof jack (DAM MAPLE PRO for loosing my order). I will let every one know how the rock wool insulates when the pipe is hooked up. Click on my pictures to see the bricking.

[peacemaker]

a penny burns at 1200 degrees

[Sugarmaker]

Tucker,
Real nice operation. The brick job looks professional to me!
Great picture as you progressed.

Chris

[VA maple guy]

Maby next year I will build some kind of walls arround my little setup.
I'm leaving for Camarillo ca Wensday with my girlfriend for a winter ski and fun getaway until feb 1. I will be tapping the same day I get home so no walls this year. I'll try boiling with and with out ceramic blanket wrapped arround the pans to see if makes any difference. Still no pictures.
I'm taking my computer to a friend tomorrow who knows how to sweet talk them.
Maby he can get this blue tooth thing to work.
Gerry

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Gerry,

Why not buy some cheap blue tarps or some heavy plastic and put on the outside walls. This will make a huge difference. Years ago when I was a kid, I would put up a small shed every year and take it down at the end of the season and most of the time I just used plastic for the walls and roof and left the firing end open and it worked good and made a huge difference.

[Dave Y]

Gerry,
Take alook a my pics. the 05 maple season. that shelter was put up and taken down every year. I had tarp sides. When the weather was bad the sides were down. When the weather was good the sides were up. and when it was real nice i took some panels off the roof to let the steam out I had about $150.00 in it.

[MaplePancakeMan]

Dave Y i looked at your pictures, did you have any problems with the steam condensing and falling back into the evaporator. I thought of building something very similar but have a hatch that could be opened easily to let the steam out, or atleast some of it. and i could boil with it closed if the weather was bad?

How much would you say cold wind takes away from a boiling rate?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

You can put a small window fan or a box fan at one end and it will pull out about all of the steam. Just put it up in the peak or highest point. I used a $ 15 box fan that was plenty used by the time I got hold of it for 2 or 3 years.

[MaplePancakeMan]

westvirginia, that makes perfect sense... i think i'll start on that tomorrow now that i have it all drawn out!