Shurflo substitue for off grid solar pump?

[DMF]

I'm looking to add a solar pump to my sugarbush this year to improve my sap collection yield. I have around 230-240 taps I'd like to put on this system so the recomendation from everything I can find is to use the Shurflo 4048 (4GPM) if going over 200 taps. In searching for these, I found a 5GPM pump at amazon that seems to have good reviews and is quite cheaper. Has anyone had experience with these? Any reason why this pump shouldn't work in my application?

Thanks in advance!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09196SLT3/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_234?psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzQ0ozN0QwWDhETzg3J mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODk3MjE5ODBGRTZDRUIwUEkxJmVuY3J 5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAzNzAwNjgxQ1ZPU0JHOVFSOU1QJndpZGdld E5hbWU9c2Rfb25zaXRlX2Rlc2t0b3AmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmV kaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

[NhShaun]

I think you may be pushing the limits for a single diaphragm pump with that many taps, even with the 5gpm rated pumps. Especially if you have any minor leaks in your system. Is this system on mainline or individual 5/16 or 3/16 runs into a manifold? Is there a way you can break it up into two lines and just run two separate pumps? That adds quite a bit of upfront cost but will greatly increase your vacuum capabilities on each line which overall should yield more sap. Another option would be a guzzler which is good for around 400 taps, A lot more $ for the pump but would leave wiggle room for future added taps if they are available.

[DMF]

Individual 3/16 lines into a manifold. I'm trying to understand the sizing aspect. From what I've read a Shurflo 4008 rated at 3 gallons/minute can handle around 200 taps. The larger 4048 rated at 4 gallons/minute can supposedly support 300 taps...? Seems like a 5 gallon/minute pump should be able to handle 240 no?

[NhShaun]

It all greatly depends on the particular set up and where you get your information. I have not seen the number of taps that high on any shurflo systems in my reading. If you're using all 3/16 lines with good slope into a manifold the pump can handle creating vacuum much easier than if you had them running on a 3/4" mainline with minimal slope. The difference in a comfortable tap capability for the same pump would vary quite a bit between those two systems.

I found this on https://www.mountainmaplefarm.com/pricing/
I believe he understands these low cfm diaphragm systems quite well and has lots of experience. Maybe he has more information on how he settled on these recommended numbers below.

Shurflo 4008 3gpm 12 volt pump For 100 taps.
Shurflo 4048 4gpm 12 volt pump For 150 taps.
Shurflo 4008 3gpm 110VAC pump For 100 taps.
Shurflo 4128 2gpm 12 volt pump Up to 75 taps.
Shurflo 4138 3gpm 12 volt pump Up to 125 taps.
Shurflo 4148 4gpm 12 volt pump Up to 175 taps.

[Super Sapper]

I use the 2088 pumps on up to 165 taps with no issues. It is a 3 gpm pump.

[NhShaun]

I use the 2088 pumps on up to 165 taps with no issues. It is a 3 gpm pump. What kind of tubing set up are you using? Mainline or tubing into manifold?

[markgm]

I had a Seaflo (a knock off Shurflo) pump that didn't last me a year. Towards the end of the season my sap numbers were dropping and I thought my tap holes were just closing up. Turns out the pump just failed to pump any longer. I went with a Shurflo and haven't had any issues. It wasn't worth trying to save a few dollars in this application (I can't even guess how many gallons of syrup I couldn't make). Looking at the reviews of that pump, I'd steer clear. (I wouldn't be surprised if Seaflo and KOLERFLO are the same company).

[Biz]

I've had reports that beyond a certain number of taps, you will still get sap flow but vacuum levels will drop, therefore sap production will be less. A customer with 150 taps had several runs of 3/16 lines connected that were separately valved, and he found that if one run was shut off, vacuum increased a couple inches. When that happens, that means the pump is undersized for maximum sap production. You can use a small Shurflo pump on 300 taps (not recommended!) and you will get sap but you will get reduced vacuum levels and reduced flow. No reason that 20" or more at end of lines cannot be seen with these pumps if everything is tight, set up right, and pump is correctly sized. Although finding problems in season is not always easy.

FYI I had two Seaflo 5.5gm transfer pumps stop working a couple years ago within days of each other, turned out that the pressure switches were bad on both units. Replacing them fixed it.

Dave

[DrTimPerkins]

I've had reports that beyond a certain number of taps, you will still get sap flow but vacuum levels will drop, therefore sap production will be less.

These types of pumps are made for moving liquid, not necessarily air. The CFM removal of air is typically quite low. Thus any small leak will drop the vacuum level quickly. The same however is true when the sap is running because trees produce not only sap, but also gas. The gas production rate goes up quickly as the temperature increases. This is compounded by the expansion of gases with temperature. All those things result in the vacuum level dropping with these pumps as the temperature gets warm. The pumps simply aren't able to move the gas out of the system fast enough to maintain a steady vacuum level. A recirculation line can help with some styles of pump (especially diaphragm pumps) as it helps to continuously move liquid, which also traps and removes some air from the line. The drop in vacuum can get really bad at the end of a long sap run if it is warm. That phenomenon is natural and is to be expected with these types of pumps. Only real recourse is to use a different style of pump made to remove air from the system. Generally if it is a quick drop in vacuum (to near zero) then it's a leak. If it's a slow drop-off in vacuum (but with some vacuum remaining) it is from tree gas production.

[Super Sapper]

What kind of tubing set up are you using? Mainline or tubing into manifold?

I have gone to using a manifold as there is less volume to move (gas and sap) to get and maintain vacuum levels. With 150 to 165 taps I can maintain mid 20's at the pump during a heavy flow. I do not use a recirc. line as close to 1/2 of my lines have good slope and they seem to provide the liquid to keep the vac levels up.

[DMF]

So I'll give some more details of my sugar bush. I currently have 230 taps on 9 different 3/16" lines that see an 80' drop in elevation. I can get 28" of natural vacuum on my top trees. I have close to 100 more trees at the bottom of our sugar bush I'd like to tap that are below my current collection tanks. Unfortunately, the land there flattens out and I can possibly get 20' of elevation change over 600-700 feet. The area where my collection tanks now is tough to get to once things muddy up. If I can tie in the extra 100 below it all tied in somehow, it gets me close to the road which will make collecting much easier. This is why I am thinking of this pump set-up. For me it's two-fold:
1. Be able to include the close to 100 additional taps
2. Be able to pump my current lines the additional 600 or so feet closer to the road.

I don't have power down there so the whole solar powered 12V pump appeals to me. Maybe there's a completely better way to approach this?

[BAP]

Is there any grade from the bottom 100 taps to the road? Or is it below the road? Sounds like for the number of taps, a Bosworth 12 or 24v pump would be the best to use.

[NhShaun]

I agree on the guzzler pump with that number of taps, or possibly multiple shurflo pumps. One for the existing lines with the outlet of the pump just transferring to the sap in a 1/2" or 3/4" line the 600 ish feet to the new road tank(I have seen many users doing this) And another pump at the new collection tank picking up the 100 new taps. That would require quite a few upgrades, like 2 separate solar panels and batteries. A transfer "mainline" and probably steel wire for that distance. If not the two pump option you could just run a Guzzler at the new roadside tank, tie your 100 new taps on mainline and continue the mainline right up the the old lines.

[kudu]

I started using a Shurflo pump 4008 on one set of gravity lines. Have about 275 taps on 5/16 tube running into 1/2" mains that go to a 3/4" main. Probably only have a total of 15' of gravity fall to my tanks. When I put the pump in line on a 12 volt deep cycle battery I had over 2.5 times the sap I normally got from just the gravity line. This will be year three on that pump, I have two other lines set up in like fashion, about 180 taps on one and about 90 on another. I have to watch weather and pull the pumps when it freezes hard as I don't know if they will take a freeze and survive. I have camloc couplers on both sides of pump in a plastic storage box to hold pump and battery. Battery life is about 30 hours before I swap out. I'm on north side of woods so don't get hardly any sun for solar charger. On a good day vacuum will be about 24 inches with these little pumps when I can find all the leaks. Any suction is better than just gravity on light slopes.