2022 worried about sap run

[tapdrinker]

As a Vermont small backyarder-I'm worried about this winter weather. Will it be cold enough for a good sap run. Correct me if I'm wrong but the permafrost was only 3" here in Randolph. That's horrible for this time of year. I've only been doing this for 5 yrs so maybe Dr. Perkins could chime in here about his experience with mild winters.

Thanks and happy holidays all.

[fisheatingbagel]

Sap flow is mostly a matter of having sub-freezing temperatures at night followed by above freezing daytime temps. There doesn't need to be an extended hard freeze. I'm in Louisville KY and some years we don't have periods of sub-freezing temps, but sap still flows as long as there are sub-freezing nights followed by above freezing temps.

[CTguy923]

theres still a lot of winter to come before sugar season

[MapleCamp]

As the days get longer the cold gets stronger

[DrTimPerkins]

theres still a lot of winter to come before sugar season

This. It is far too early to start worrying about it. I guarantee you it will get cold in Vermont.

[220 maple]

My unprofessional opinion is warm weather during the season causes metabolism, just curious if the professionals know what causes metabolism?
Mark 220 Maple

[buckeye gold]

I have dealt with some metabolism in my early sap, but I have not seen it much in the spring. Warm weather is more a problem with bacteria. I usually have my early taps in by now, but with all this warm weather forcast I did not put them out yet. I think I will start next week with the 50 early taps. One year my first 2-3 batches all had metabolism. I used all that for making Maple nuts and my wife set it aside for cooking and BBQ sauce, fine for that. Maybe our grand Maple wizard ( that would be Dr Tim) can catch us all up on why it seems to occur more in the early sap runs.

I look for a big year of sap production with all this rain, but probably lower sugar. Of course my sugar has been low for the last 3-4 years, what's new.

[DrTimPerkins]

The exact environmental conditions which lead to metabolism are not well understood, but it is pretty clear that: 1) some bushes are considerably more prone to the problem, 2) addition of fertilizer (especially nitrogen) seems to exacerbate the problem (note that liming alone doesn't do this) and 3) it appears that extended COLD weather is related. The reason for #3 may be that the trees have varying amounts and types of amino acids (the chemical precursors to metabolism off-flavor) in the sap in the fall. If there is not much freeze/thaw over the winter, these compounds don't be flushed out and just stick around in the tree until flow starts in the spring. After a few good freeze/thaw periods, those compounds typically get flushed out, but unfortunately the nice light syrup at the beginning of the season are often affected.
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/farmingjun15column/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/m0209metabolismoffflavorpart1/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/m1009metabolismoffflavorpart2/

[Sugar Bear]

The exact environmental conditions which lead to metabolism are not well understood, but it is pretty clear that: 1) some bushes are considerably more prone to the problem, 2) addition of fertilizer (especially nitrogen) seems to exacerbate the problem (note that liming alone doesn't do this) and 3) it appears that extended COLD weather is related. The reason for #3 may be that the trees have varying amounts and types of amino acids (the chemical precursors to metabolism off-flavor) in the sap in the fall. If there is not much freeze/thaw over the winter, these compounds don't be flushed out and just stick around in the tree until flow starts in the spring. After a few good freeze/thaw periods, those compounds typically get flushed out, but unfortunately the nice light syrup at the beginning of the season are often affected.
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/farmingjun15column/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/m0209metabolismoffflavorpart1/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/m1009metabolismoffflavorpart2/

Does a lot of sap flow in the fall mean there will be more acids that need to be flushed during some freeze thaw cycles in winter or by the first runs in March if there is a prolonged Jan/Feb freeze lock?

[DrTimPerkins]

Does a lot of sap flow in the fall mean there will be more acids that need to be flushed during some freeze thaw cycles in winter or by the first runs in March if there is a prolonged Jan/Feb freeze lock?

The status of fall levels and types of amino acids in relation to spring sap flavor is basically unknown. What we do know is that: 1) amino acids (mostly nitrogen containing types) are implicated as precursors in metabolism off-flavor, 2) that metabolism tends to occur more frequently in areas with high soil nitrogen and 3) metabolism is generally an early-season phenomenon, 4) metabolism is sometimes regional and 5) it often occurs following winters without many substantial thaw periods.

Part of the problem is that many producers confuse metabolism off-flavor with buddy off-flavor. They are two very different things. Another complicating factor is that the detection threshold for metabolism varies considerably from person to person. Some people can taste it (and find it objectionable) in very low quantities. Others can't taste it until it is very prominent, and don't find it especially nasty.

[Sugar Bear]

The status of fall levels and types of amino acids in relation to spring sap flavor is basically unknown. What we do know is that: 1) amino acids (mostly nitrogen containing types) are implicated as precursors in metabolism off-flavor, 2) that metabolism tends to occur more frequently in areas with high soil nitrogen and 3) metabolism is generally an early-season phenomenon, 4) metabolism is sometimes regional and 5) it often occurs following winters without many substantial thaw periods.

Part of the problem is that many producers confuse metabolism off-flavor with buddy off-flavor. They are two very different things. Another complicating factor is that the detection threshold for metabolism varies considerably from person to person. Some people can taste it (and find it objectionable) in very low quantities. Others can't taste it until it is very prominent, and don't find it especially nasty.

Where would you say trees who's roots systems have easy access to septic/leach field areas fit in? Do they have access to high levels of nitrogen? If so are they potential problem makers and at high risk of metabolizing syrup?

Can 2 or 3 bad apples sour 47 other sweet apples?

[Swingpure]

The polar vortex has shifted east. I think the colder nights some people wanted will be realized. It is definitely winter here and much of January looks to be pretty chilly and colder than average, at least around these parts of the maple sap area.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0d4IqiJ67OVz6amj3WuWXMGGw

[DrTimPerkins]

Where would you say trees who's roots systems have easy access to septic/leach field areas fit in? Do they have access to high levels of nitrogen? If so are they potential problem makers and at high risk of metabolizing syrup?

Can 2 or 3 bad apples sour 47 other sweet apples?

They would certainly have more access to N. It is hard to say though whether they'd be more prone to metabolism. It is really the interplay of a number of factors. Whether you detect it in your syrup in low levels depends upon your sensitivity to the compound creating the off-flavor.

[Sugar Bear]

They would certainly have more access to N. It is hard to say though whether they'd be more prone to metabolism. It is really the interplay of a number of factors. Whether you detect it in your syrup in low levels depends upon your sensitivity to the compound creating the off-flavor.

Interesting because I did notice a very slight off/different flavor to my syrup last year. Nothing that kept me from using it anywhere. Or nothing that kept anyone from asking for more of it. Or "friends" showing up for it and then more of it.

But way too many changes to my equation last year to fully conclude anything from anything.

1) We did have a long contiguous freeze cycle of at least three weeks last year from late January well past the first two weeks of February. And then sap took a good week to get going after a warm up as it will. ( would be supportive of metabolism syndrome )

2) Added 10 Red maple taps 5 of which qualified as "swamp maples" growing out of always firm and walkable flood plain.

3) Added 2 Silver maple taps ( above average sap production ) which had very good access to extended leech field. Also in nearly always walkable flood plain. ( Not sure how the leech field ever got approved as it is a neighbors property ).

4) Added what seemed to be a outstanding functioning home built RO ( and did all cleaning procedures as suggested and then some by heating my rinse water to 100 degrees )

5) I also heard of a couple of others in the region commenting on a slight different taste last year as well. ( would be supportive of metabolism syndrome )

I suppose Red Maples on flood plain may be able to get their roots on more N than others as well?

[TapTapTap]

Remember this discussion from a couple of weeks ago? Maybe less an issue now that winter feels like winter.
Ken

[ennismaple]

Back to the original topic of this thread - worrying about the weather. All we can do is be ready to tap and process sap when Mother Nature says its time. The weather during the season has far more affect on your yield and the quality of the syrup you make than the weather 2-3 months prior. I'd say the way winter has gone so far has been good in our area. Not many days above freezing, little snow (until today!) and a number of very cold days to drive the frost into the ground. 12" to 24" of frost in the ground with about 2 feet of snow in the woods is where I want to be when the season starts.

I used to lose sleep worrying about the weather and other things I had little to no control over. The RO stressed me out, I'd worry about the vacuum pumps, my evaporator blowers, the ATV, the tractor etc... and none of that worrying helped me make more or better syrup. Once I realized that energy spent worrying was better spent preparing I slept better and was able to enjoy making syrup.

[randolphvt]

Remember this discussion from a couple of weeks ago? Maybe less an issue now that winter feels like winter.
Ken

Yes, I stand corrected in this very very cold insane winter. My worry is over. I just hope I don't turn into an ice mummy with -19 degrees.