Float box set-up and floats

[Openwater]

Has anyone used this kind of float box, valves and floats?
Do they work well/maintain good constant levels if trying to maintain 3/4 - 1"?
Can warm/hot sap go thru valve into these without problems?
Thanks for the input
22587

[toquin]

I think float will be to heavy to maintain 3/4-1"

[buckeye gold]

I agree, I think you need more surface area. I think it would be ok in a storage or head tank but not in a feeder box, especially with the feed hole right in front of it.

[Openwater]

Any suggestions regarding what type of float I should replace the SS ball with that has more surface area without putting out $100 for the commercial Leader rectangle floats?

[amasonry]

make one. but put a vent in it. your stainless one will explode if it sees temps above 220 without a vent

[tombaisley]

Stainless Steel whiskey flask

[Openwater]

Stainless Steel whiskey flask
Just drill a hole in the side of flask to vent? Or are they strong enough to deal with the higher temps?

[amasonry]

whiskey flask maybe. depends on head pressure

[amasonry]

what size is the box? might have one that fits some I made, some are older with lead solder. wound let one go for 50.00 total. if it works out.

[Openwater]

Float box size is 15"L x 8"W x 5.5"H
Head pressure on float valve will probably be minimal. I usually keep topping off a 20 gallon stock pot on a propane burner just a bit higher than pan for my "pre-heater" and am planning on piping the hot sap from ball valve in stock pot into the float box valve.
Let me know if you have a functional float; it'd be much 'preciated.
My syrup is only for personal consumption, so the lead solder is ok; the diet coke will probably kill me before the lead does.

[bmbmkr]

I used that SS valve, I made a float out of a 1/9th size steam pan, it's about 4" x6" if that. I made a strap out of a piece of 20 ga SS, drilled several 1/4" holes 1/2" apart. I used them and the adjustment where the rod attaches to the valve body to adjust depth. I used machine screws to put a lid (made form the same 20 ga SS) on the pan it that the strap was bolted to with #8x32 machine screws. I'll try to get a photo of it in the morning. I used it for three years on my drop flue, ran it 1" after the first year, it worked good with my head tank being about 3' over the pans. I had to put another nut on the end of the rod to hold it vertical, one on each side, tightened very tight. I had about $12 in the float.

[Openwater]

I'll try to get a photo of it in the morning.
I'd be interested in seeing that pic.

[bmbmkr]

Here ya go. This worked good for me...I guess. It was first evaporator I ever ran. 22 gph max, the float did it's job on an 18"x42" CDL drop flue and a 18"x30" syrup pan. The flue pan came from Bascoms scratch & dent, didn't get the float with it. I enjoy building equipment about as much as I do tappin & boilin.

2259322594

You could get by with a 1/6 size pan maybe, your float box is bigger than mine was. That'd give you more buoyancy and stability. I had to crank the jam nut really tight to keep this one upright.

[red/one]

I have a Roberts valve and ball float feeding my sap pan but I was not comfortable with the flow rate. 1/2" copper. Thinking of going with the Leader bolt on regulating system and larger pipe but don't see any reviews on it.

[Openwater]

2259322594

You could get by with a 1/6 size pan maybe, your float box is bigger than mine was. That'd give you more buoyancy and stability. I had to crank the jam nut really tight to keep this one upright.

Would you happen to have any pictures showing how you hooked up this float to your valve in the float box?

[toquin]

I built a half dozen floats .2 whiskey flasks tig welded together worked ok. a 16 oz beer can from a craft brewery(no paint) was a little better. Then I bought a store bought one and all my problems went away.

[amasonry]

Leaders bolt on regulating system is some expensive for what you get.

[bmbmkr]

Would you happen to have any pictures showing how you hooked up this float to your valve in the float box?

Here's a quick drawing I did on sketchup. Look at your photo in your original post. Take the ball off the end of the rod. Leave the nut on, then put the threaded end of the rod through one of the holes on the vertical arm of the pan float. Put another nut on the rod threads and tighten both nuts really tight while keeping the float pan level. You'll have to procure another jam nut- mine was metric, but found one in SS at Lowes. It's been a few years, I can't remember what size it was. You change holes to change the depth.

There's also an angle adjustment on the piece that the rod screws into on the valve end. There's a thumb screw that holds two pieces of the valve depth adjustment together, you back out the thumbscrew and can change the angle of the rod. I bending the rod a little to get the depth just right. It's definitely beneficial to work on the depth and angle with cold sap or water before you start boiling. You can't easily adjust this type of valve while you are boiling but it's a million times better than pouring sap in out of a bucket. That's what I did with over 200 gallons of sap my first boil ever. we boiled for 20 hours straight after being in the woods all day. Never again!! It took a couple boils to figure out the best depth, obviously shallower is faster, but also riskier. I used this system for three years on that little evaporator and was happy with how it maintained the level after I got it fine tuned.



22600

[Openwater]

Thanks, that's what I was wondering. It just seemed like the "long" length of the rod connected to the ball/float would make it harder to finely control sap depth; like it would take a big depth change to just get the valve to open/close a little bit; but if the rod was shortened, or even bent to almost 90degrees and attached to top of float, then the vertical movement of the float would translate almost directly to the same amount of movement on the valve.
I know it's going to take some experimentation and fine-tuning, but I'd like to make sure I'm starting with the materials/hardware that will allow that fine tuning.

[bmbmkr]

You are right, the extra length does affect that geometry but at the same time, imagine
A: the amount of water leaving your pans per minute as steam, the valve allows a constant trickle to come in and replace that.
B: When you draw off the valve instantly responds and keeps enough sap in the pan to keep from scorching.
C: There is some extra weight in the length of the rod, but there's also more leverage from the float to the valve, so the buoyancy of the float has more force to close the valve.

[Openwater]

So it sounds like you don't recommend that I shorten the rod length connected to float. I've never used this kind of float valve before and I think I was picturing it functioning all wrong. I assumed the sap came in thru the valve in "pulses"; the sap level drops, valve opens, sap level comes up, and valve closes. So instead of the valve opening and closing constantly, it sounds like the valve opening/aperture stays pretty constant so there's a constant, uniform flow of sap thru the valve. I've disassembled the valve and tried to figure out how to take up the slack/play there seems to be between the action of the float arm dropping and the valve cracking open.

[Z/MAN]

So it sounds like you don't recommend that I shorten the rod length connected to float. I've never used this kind of float valve before and I think I was picturing it functioning all wrong. I assumed the sap came in thru the valve in "pulses"; the sap level drops, valve opens, sap level comes up, and valve closes. So instead of the valve opening and closing constantly, it sounds like the valve opening/aperture stays pretty constant so there's a constant, uniform flow of sap thru the valve. I've disassembled the valve and tried to figure out how to take up the slack/play there seems to be between the action of the float arm dropping and the valve cracking open.

Openwater, I have a valve similar to yours. I eliminated the slop in the pivot points by drilling the holes the same size as the pin or bolt that goes through it. Made a big difference!

[Openwater]

I eliminated the slop in the pivot points by drilling the holes the same size as the pin or bolt that goes through it
Could you show me which holes you drilled out on the pic of my valve?
From what I can tell, all the slop seems to occur because of the size difference in the width of the upper part of the lever and the hole in the stopper that it goes into.
See attached pics.
22604
22605

[Z/MAN]

In your picture the bottom bolt holds the float arm tight so it is fine. The top bolt and the holes in the body and the pivot arm have to be the exact same size. Any play at this pivot point will mess up the constant steady flow you desire. If there is any play where the arm meets the plunger this will also need to be corrected but I am not sure how to do it.

[Openwater]

The holes of the valve body and pivot arm are very close in size, and the bolt that connects them is the right size so there's no play at this pivot point; the only action at this point is rotation/pivoting on the bolt, no shifting. All the play seems to be occurring between the upper part of pivot arm and the "too big" hole of the plunger. I think the only way to take out that slop would be to make a bushing insert that goes in the plunger hole that has an inner diameter closer to the upper pivot arm width.

[bmbmkr]

So it sounds like you don't recommend that I shorten the rod length connected to float. I've never used this kind of float valve before and I think I was picturing it functioning all wrong. I assumed the sap came in thru the valve in "pulses"; the sap level drops, valve opens, sap level comes up, and valve closes. So instead of the valve opening and closing constantly, it sounds like the valve opening/aperture stays pretty constant so there's a constant, uniform flow of sap thru the valve. I've disassembled the valve and tried to figure out how to take up the slack/play there seems to be between the action of the float arm dropping and the valve cracking open.

I didn't shorten mine. I never had a problem with the slop in the valve, then again, it was the first one I'd ever used. I boiled 3 seasons with it. There will be a pulse when you draw off syrup, and maybe miniature pulses from the level dropping due to evaporation between draw offs, but that's what the valve is supposed to do, same as a manufactured, dedicated float on a "real" evaporator. There are several different designs of those, both vertical bottom feed, top feed and horizontal. They all do the same thing. You could put it on, fill up the pans and head tank and open your draw off to a trickle to simulate evaporation and see what it does.