Brand new to tubbing, help!

[eddy6963]

Hello everyone, I am going to be setting up tubing this next season and I want to start getting parts bough and on hand. I am using a shurflo pump with a manifold, I've been told to use 5/16" tubing, my first question is can I run 5/16" all the way from the first tap to the collection tank? I thought I read somewhere that on the smaller scale vacuum setups, your lateral line would work as your main line? I'm thinking between 100-150' for each length, and would splice in 20-25 taps per line. One other question, how many taps would you recommend on a 4.0GPH pump? Thanks for your help.

[bmbmkr]

I've been running about 60 taps into a 4008 I think it's rated at 3.0 gpm. I'm using 3/16 since the rest of my woods are pretty steep. I have 4 laterals on this pump, the longest 800' or so, the shortest a little over 200' with 17 taps and the pump actually pulls this sap up hill and manages 25in/HG or so. I had a few 3 gallon per tap days last season.

In years past, I had shurflo's on 3/4 mainline with 300 or so taps. I'm not sure of the CFM just overwhelmed the pump or the squirrels overwhelmed my tubing, but i could never get more than 10in/Hg pulling on 3/4". I like the newer shurflo 4 diaphragms a lot better than the older 3 diaphragm pumps made by both shurflo and ever flo, even though one or two everflo's I used were 4 gpm, they only had 3 diaphragms, and would not pull near the vac that the Shurflo 4008 pulls. I'm not sure if it's the extra diaphragm, but it definitely pulls higher Vac. I have not used recirculation, and with the wire mesh strainer, I can let the pump run past freezing, the screen catches the ice and the pump pumps itself dry so nothing to freeze and tear the membrane. Also if I don't make it out until after it thaws, the sap will run through this pump without it being turned on.

With 2 100 watt solar panels, I don't have to carry a battery out every other day, cost me $200 but saved my back.
Good luck!!

[eddy6963]

If the woods are pretty flat for the most part, would 3/16" or 5/16" be a better choice? Also with your current setup, your 3/16" line acts as your main and lateral line then? Sorry to ask probably stupid questions, but your input is extremely helpful. Thank you!

[bmbmkr]

3/16 is what I use because on high slope the book says you can run 30 taps per lateral, and 5/16 the recommendation is 5-7 taps per lateral. Most of my sugar bush is very steep and I have up to 150' of drop on some of my laterals so I use 3/16 for the natural vacuum and more taps per line.

3/16 on gravity will loose it's natural vacuum due to friction when you get to the bottom of the hill and run it across flat ground. The lines I'm pulling with the shurflo run several hundred feet along the bottom of the hill, but that's why I'm using a shurflo. It lets me bring the sap a lot closer to the sugar house.( I'm still pumping it another 300' with a gas powered pump at the end of the day.) And, I'm still gettin better than 2 gal per tap on most days, and some days more than that. I can only speak for what I'm doin. 5/16 could work just as well or better in your situation. I know a lot of people have issues with 3/16 tees plugging up, I clean my lines after the season, and replace all my fittings every three years.

These lines are laterals. They come into the shurflo on a manifold I made from 1/2" pvc fittings, elbows nipples & tees.

[eddy6963]

Alright, again thank you for your information.

[bmbmkr]

22545 Found this photo finally! I have my 3/16 transitioned to 5/16 right at the pump because the only fittings I could find from tubing to 1/2" NPT were 5/16

[DRoseum]

I built a manifold using push connect fittings and 3/8 OD poly tubing. I have 3/8 x 1/4 tees with 1/4 valves on each line and used 3/16 barb x 1/4 stem fittings found at freshwatersystems.com.
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/dmfit-stem-barb-straight-connector-1-4-od-stem-x-3-16-id-barb

This worked great for easily disconnecting lines and being able to isolate them via the valves if necessary.

Video of it here at 1:40 seconds:
https://youtu.be/ni3ScN3lhZs

[eddy6963]

Sorry to ask probably a stupid question, but I have to adjoining properties, 1 is almost completely flat and the other does have some slope to it(let's go with 15' for conversation) if I run 3/16" lines on the flat ground and finish going to the sloped trees with a shurflo pump would this be a good option? Again thank you for your help.

[DrTimPerkins]

3/16" tubing is not good on flat ground. Think of it as a slope that you sled down. When it's steep, you really fly (good vacuum). If you have a flat spot at the bottom, you'll slow down (poor vacuum) and stop (no vacuum or even backpressure). If you add a Shurflo pump to it, you're basically adding a sled-dog to pull you across the flat area. But the 3/16" tubing is going to make it harder for the pump to work for you. In this case (flat ground), 5/16" is probably more highly indicated.

You say you have a 15' drop in the other section....but how long of a tubing run is that on?

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

I believe what Dr. Tim described is what we witnessed on our 1 run of 3/16" we tried last year. We have 31 taps on a moderate slope.....40' of drop over 500' of line which is an 8% slope that is a consistent 8% from top to bottom. Sounds great, right? But the last 50' to the barrel is much flatter, maybe a 2%. We were not happy with the results. The sap yield was proportionately less (compared to the other bushes) than what we had gotten in years past from these trees on 3 runs of 5/16". We are going to try it one more year with a Shurflo setup on the 3/16" to see if it does indeed help in the flat section near the end. We also will have a vacuum gauge this year so we know better what is going on. Hoping it works because 1 run of 3/16" is a lot cheaper and easier than setting up a mainline and 5/16" with laterals. We plan to replace the 1 line of 3/16" every 2 seasons and drops every 4th season if it works.

[Biz]

Shane, were you able to measure vacuum at the top of the problem line? I assume that you get good natural vacuum on your 8% slope. Maybe the long flat 3/16 tubing at the end reduces it. If so, could you put the collection tank at the bottom of the steep part, and pump it out through a transfer line when full. Seems like that way you get the advantage of natural vacuum but not the downside of the flat run. Just a thought. Might be an interesting test.

Dave

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

We did not have a vacuum gauge there last year. We could do as you suggest, would lose a couple taps doing so. Moving the collection tote would also make it a little harder to access. We pump from the tote now, it doesn’t run to the sugar house. Going to experiment some more for sure.

[DrTimPerkins]

...could you put the collection tank at the bottom of the steep part, and pump it out through a transfer line when full. Seems like that way you get the advantage of natural vacuum but not the downside of the flat run.

Excellent suggestion Dave. If it doesn't create too many other issues with pumping, this would be the way to go. You could run 5/16" tubing to pick up any trees on the flat ground.

[w8nfsnow]

I'm new to this hobby but had good success this past season. Ran 6 runs of 3/16" tubing with 20 taps on each for a total of 120 taps with minimal overall slope maybe 1% and 1-2' of drop from each of the last taps. Each of the 6 runs are similar at 400-500' in length.

I decided to build a small vacuum system using a Shurflo 4008 with some logic to turn the pump on and off based off outside temperature as well as a timer to control what time of day the pump was allowed to run. We had an odd season with many days not going below freezing and I didn't want the pump to run all night based of temperature alone to save the deep cycle battery from going low. In my mind I felt the 3/16' tubing would be a better fit over the 5/16" since the principle of a more continuous column of sap could be an advantage to the Shurflo pump similar to natural slope gravity. I suppose there is the devil of parasitic type drag within the line but still I couldn't be happier with the overall results with consistent 23-25" of vacuum at the top end of each line during decent runs.