My plan

[Swingpure]

I have yet to tap a tree or boil an ounce of sap, but I have the bug bad. I have read many, many articles on it, watched many you tube videos and have chatted up local syrup makers. I have been posting about my cinder block evaporator build and almost have it dialed in after it’s third test. Still some tweaks to do.

This is my plan after hauling down the sap from the trees. I will have the ability to store about 120 gallons of sap. Right now I will be tapping 36 trees, that may go up. For the most part I will be collecting the sap and boiling.

I will filter the raw sap into the storage containers. (2 45 gallon covered drums and 5 gallon pails. All food grade.

The sap will be stored outdoors, covered in snow banks. When I get 60 gallons stored, or after two days being stored, I will start boiling.

I will boil it to close to syrup, but stop before it does. I will pour it, while it is still hot, through a wet filter into a pail. I will keep that pail in a snowbank until I am ready to finish it.

I received my finishing pot today, it is magnetic stainless steel and I will heat the nearup on an induction range. I will test it with a candy thermometer, hydrotherm and a refractometer. My goal is to get it to between 67 and 67.5 Brix. When it is done, I will filter it once more into a pail and store it in a snowbank until I am ready to bottle it. (I will use the same pot and induction range to boil some sap, while I am evaporating.)

On September 8th, I pick up a brew kettle with a ball valve and thermometer. When it comes time for bottling, will slowly reheat the syrup while stirring and when it reaches between 185 and 190 degrees, I will fill preheat jars and bottles, cap them and then turn them upside down for five seconds. Then I am done, other than cleaning up.


Is there any major mistakes to my plan?

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[aamyotte]

One observation of your plan is the snowbank. I did the same this past spring with my 45 gallon storage tank set in the snowbank. The rains and quick melt this spring made my snow melt fast. That coupled with 15 to 20 degree Celsius days I had to switch to an alternate method to keep my sap cool. I made sap cubes by putting sap in ice cream container and throwing them in the freezer overnight. In the morning I would put 3 or 4 sap cubes in the barrel then make new ones. This kept my sap safe for the few days until the boil.
From my understanding this past spring was not very good from a sap yield perspective.

[Swingpure]

I made sap cubes by putting sap in ice cream container and throwing them in the freezer overnight. In the morning I would put 3 or 4 sap cubes in the barrel then make new ones. This kept my sap safe for the few days until the boil.
From my understanding this past spring was not very good from a sap yield perspective.

Clever idea, thank you.

Yes last spring was certainly different.

[Sugar Bear]

I will boil it to close to syrup, but stop before it does. I will pour it, while it is still hot, through a wet filter into a pail. I will keep that pail in a snowbank until I am ready to finish it.
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I do this but use a stainless steel pot ( minimum 16 quart pot ) rather then a pail. Not sure what the pail is??? I keep the stainless steel pot stored in a refrigerator inside. That way I don't have to worry about critters getting into it.

If I have more to add to it within a few days I add it. Sometimes I have two steel pots going at one time.

I usually don't let it go more then 2 or 3 days before I take it to syrup on propane in those same pot/pots.

Then it goes into 1/2 gallon mason jars.

Settles nearly all sugar sand to the bottom after a few weeks.

Can be pored off effectively for reheating and rebottling if need be.

[Swingpure]

I do this but use a stainless steel pot ( minimum 16 quart pot ) rather then a pail. Not sure what the pail is??? I keep the stainless steel pot stored in a refrigerator inside. That way I don't have to worry about critters getting into it..

The “pail” was just going to be a 5 gallon plastic food grade pail with a lid on it. I do have one 16 qt stainless steel pot that I was going to use for some supplemental boiling and finishing. I guess getting a second one would be a better vessel to store it in and when it got full, I know it would be time to finish it. Fridge space is always an issue, but I do have a second fridge in the bunkie (sleeping cabin) that I likely could use.

Thanks

[berkshires]

Personally speaking, I like to finish and bottle every batch, or at most every two batches. Otherwise all your syrup is going to be a blend. Which may be fine with you, but I like the variety I get from different batches. Even if you don't want to bottle each batch, I still don't see the point of finishing each batch unless you're going to bottle it. When you get it exactly to syrup, bottle it then, rather than having to deal with storing it and reheating it.

Particularly since you seem to be very reliant on the weather for a lot of your storage. That's an iffy proposition, as Mother Nature always has her own plans, and they don't always line up with ours!

Good luck!

GO

[berkshires]

So to be clear, I would just change the following:



I will boil it to close to syrup, but stop before it does. I will pour it, while it is still hot, through a wet filter into a pail. I will keep that pail in a snowbank until I am ready to finish it.

I received my finishing pot today, it is magnetic stainless steel and I will heat the nearup on an induction range. I will test it with a candy thermometer, hydrotherm and a refractometer. My goal is to get it to between 67 and 67.5 Brix. When it is done, I will filter it

SKIP THIS STEP:
once more into a pail and store it in a snowbank until I am ready to

and bottle it.

Cheers,

Gabe

[Pdiamond]

i am assuming that your 36 trees will each have one tap per tree. If you are using regular sap buckets on a good day they may have to be emptied twice. What I am saying is your trees could produce 2 or 3 gallons of sap per tree and if the weather is perfect this could happen for several days in a row. Just something for you to think about for storage and boiling. Sap, like milk, will only keep for so long before it starts to turn. You will have to boil almost everyday to keep up when it really flows well.

[Swingpure]

Personally speaking, I like to finish and bottle every batch, or at most every two batches. Otherwise all your syrup is going to be a blend. Which may be fine with you, but I like the variety I get from different batches. Even if you don't want to bottle each batch, I still don't see the point of finishing each batch unless you're going to bottle it. When you get it exactly to syrup, bottle it then, rather than having to deal with storing it and reheating it.

GO

I hear you. Thanks

I think I was staging the steps because of was thinking of workload management.

[Swingpure]

i am assuming that your 36 trees will each have one tap per tree. If you are using regular sap buckets on a good day they may have to be emptied twice. What I am saying is your trees could produce 2 or 3 gallons of sap per tree and if the weather is perfect this could happen for several days in a row. Just something for you to think about for storage and boiling. Sap, like milk, will only keep for so long before it starts to turn. You will have to boil almost everyday to keep up when it really flows well.

The logistics of collecting sap, boiling, finishing and bottling does have me thinking about how I am going to manage it, especially when the sap is really running.

Assuming i get about 10.5 US gallons of sap per tree in a season, as an average, and each time I boil, I have 64 US gallons of sap available, I will have 6 boil days for the 36 taps. (assuming boiling 8 gallons an hour for 8 hours)

Keep in mind I have never tapped a tree or boiled an ounce of sap before, so all of my planning could be bunk. I do see now that I should finish and bottle on the same day, although it will be done in two different pots.

I do have an ace in the hole for sap storage. I plow all of the snow in my parking areas into a gulley, that snow hangs around for several weeks after the other snow is gone and it is close to the evaporator. It can be used as my outdoor refrigerator.

Lots to learn.

One question, what would a typical minimum amount of sap to boil?

[Sugar Bear]

The “pail” was just going to be a 5 gallon plastic food grade pail with a lid on it. I do have one 16 qt stainless steel pot that I was going to use for some supplemental boiling and finishing. I guess getting a second one would be a better vessel to store it in and when it got full, I know it would be time to finish it. Fridge space is always an issue, but I do have a second fridge in the bunkie (sleeping cabin) that I likely could use.

Thanks

Hot syrup deserves as much respect as possible. Stainless steel carries more respect then plastic. Besides your not going to finish it in the plastic, at least I hope not.

[berkshires]

The logistics of collecting sap, boiling, finishing and bottling does have me thinking about how I am going to manage it, especially when the sap is really running.

Assuming i get about 10.5 US gallons of sap per tree in a season, as an average, and each time I boil, I have 64 US gallons of sap available, I will have 6 boil days for the 36 taps. (assuming boiling 8 gallons an hour for 8 hours)

Keep in mind I have never tapped a tree or boiled an ounce of sap before, so all of my planning could be bunk. I do see now that I should finish and bottle on the same day, although it will be done in two different pots.

I do have an ace in the hole for sap storage. I plow all of the snow in my parking areas into a gulley, that snow hangs around for several weeks after the other snow is gone and it is close to the evaporator. It can be used as my outdoor refrigerator.

Lots to learn.

One question, what would a typical minimum amount of sap to boil?

The problem with all this is that while the above is generally true over the course of a season, the trees don't clock in and clock out like you and I do. They're more manic-depressive in their output. I looked over my stats for the last six years, and every single year, I've had two runs that produced half or more of the sap for the season. Last year on March 23 I collected and boiled 72 gallons from 18 taps. That's 4 gallons per tap. That is not unusual for the best run of the season.

Peak load, not average over the season, is what you should be thinking about in terms of your time commitments and storage commitments.

Regarding minimum sap to boil - I'd say that depends on your GPH, and a lot of other factors. I don't like to fire up the evaporator for less than a two hour boil. But then I have to drive two hours to get to my sugarbush, and I only boil on weekends, so YMMV. Others may like to do short boils every day to keep the sap fresh.

You'll need to figure out what works for you.

Gabe

[Swingpure]

Personally speaking, I like to finish and bottle every batch, or at most every two batches. Otherwise all your syrup is going to be a blend. Which may be fine with you, but I like the variety I get from different batches.

I plan on boiling fairly frequently. I can go at it 7 days a week, so i will not have sap that is more than likely two and at most three days old. Would mixing batches from two or three consecutive days be a bad thing?

Right now I have 36 taps and could be up to 45 or 50 taps in the next couple of weeks.

[Sugar Bear]

I plan on boiling fairly frequently. I can go at it 7 days a week, so i will not have sap that is more than likely two and at most three days old. Would mixing batches from two or three consecutive days be a bad thing?

Right now I have 36 taps and could be up to 45 or 50 taps in the next couple of weeks.

I usually mix together anything in the same run. Meaning after the sap stops running from freeze up or too warm and then starts running again at some point, I won't mix that syrup with the previous run. It is frequently a different grade from the previous run. The later in the season you get the more pronounced that difference can get.

But not always that way.

[Swingpure]

Hot syrup deserves as much respect as possible. Stainless steel carries more respect then plastic. Besides your not going to finish it in the plastic, at least I hope not.

I will put the nearup in stainless steel pots now. I will buy some when I see them go on sale. I will get two pots.

I already have a stainless steel pot for finishing on a portable induction range and next week I am getting a stainless steel kettle for bottling. I will also be getting some shelving brackets to store all of this stuff. It is building up quickly.

[Swingpure]

So just to revise my plan after the sap is down and stored:

Hopefully I can do these steps on the same day, if not, the nearup, or syrup will be stored in a stainless steel pot in a refrigerator until the next step.



I will boil it to close to syrup, then I will pour it, while it is still hot, through a wet flat filter and prefilters into a 19L stainless steel pot.

I will pour that into my stainless steel finishing pot, which may have some hot nearup of it’s own. I will finish it on an induction range. I will test it with a candy thermometer, hydrotherm and a refractometer. My goal is to get it to between 67 and 67.5 Brix.

When it is done, and still hot, I will filter it once more (with a wet flat filter) into my stainless steel bottling kettle, which has a ball valve and hose, and a thermometer. I will slowly reheat the syrup on the kitchen stove, while stirring and when it reaches between 185 and 190 degrees, I will fill preheated jars and bottles, cap them and then turn them upside down for five seconds.

Three different stainless steel pots, but I am filtering from one pot to another twice. The finishing pot has a magnetic stainless steel bottom to work on the induction range and the bottling pot has the ball valve, hose and thermometer for ease of bottling.

Actually the biggest unknown for me is getting to and stopping at the near syrup stage. I guess the thermometer is the key tool to determine that.

Thanks

Gary

[Swingpure]

Well I was starting off with 16 taps and buckets and I now have about 53 taps. (This number might change, if there keeps hesvy snow and i might bypass some outliers). I realized the math of collecting all of that sap from each tree was daunting on my own. I decided to go to some lines. At times I was planning on having up to four lines, but have decided to go with two lines. (Visually more appealing to my wife, for the first year of doing this). The two lines will encompass all of the trees which are furthest from a road. The two lines will feed into a 55 gallon barrel each and will will turn 17 taps into 2 collection areas. Hopefully i will get some vacumn with these lines and get a good sap return. That still leaves about 36 trees with buckets, most are easy to access.

I will string out the lines, late October or early November, before the snow flies and there is still some warmth in the air.

I will boil it to close to syrup, then I will pour it, into my 19L stainless steel finishing pot. Any sap remaining in the steam pans will be continued to be heated until the evaporator cools down. The partially boiled sap will go into an 8 gallon stainless steel pot and will be refrigerated overnight and will give me a head’s start next boil.

I will finish it on an induction range. I will test it with a candy thermometer, hydrotherm and a refractometer. My goal is to get it to between 67 and 67.5 Brix.

When it is done, and still hot, I will filter it through my bucket filter into my stainless steel bottling kettle, which has a ball valve and hose, and a thermometer. I will slowly reheat the syrup on the kitchen stove, while stirring and when it reaches between 185 and 190 degrees, I will fill preheated jars and bottles, cap them and then turn them upside down for five seconds.


Gary

[Brian]

don't filter your syrup until it is finished syrup. it is a good way to lose syrup and time. Alot of the old timers let the niter settle to the bottom and poured off the top. If you heat syrup above 190 deg f it will reinterduce niter. once the syrup is finished then filter it.

[Swingpure]

Running practice lines has made me relook at my whole area. My neighbour’s who are now away until late Spring, gave me permission to tap trees on their properties. When I was first thinking about just using buckets, I only looked at trees near my property lines that were handy to get to. Now that I am getting into lines and understanding the power of the vacuum, I relooked at their properties and I could add more trees, and in some cases add more overall height to the run. For all of the runs, I will have a long uninterrupted run from the last tap to the collection barrels, but wish they were a little steeper, but there is still a decent slope on all of them.

I am now closer to 80 taps, 56 on 5 lines, to 3, 55 gallon collection areas. There are 24 buckets, 12 on easy to get to locations on my property and 5 and 7 on two other properties, all large easy to get to trees.

I think I will get two more 55 gallon plastic barrels for extra sap storage. If it ever turned out to be a good year, I will have more than a few days, that produce more sap than I can boil.

I had an actual maple sap drill bit for the 3/16 taps, but after reading some posts will get one as well for the 5/16 taps.

One question: Do people use garden hoses when they pump from a collection area to their storage containers.

[DrTimPerkins]

... but wish they were a little steeper, but there is still a decent slope on all of them.

What do you mean by "decent slope"? Any flat parts...if so, where in the run and how long?


I had an actual maple sap drill bit for the 3/16 taps, but after reading some posts will get one as well for the 5/16 taps.

Did you have actual 3/16" spouts, or 5/16" spouts with 3/16" tubing connectors?


One question: Do people use garden hoses when they pump from a collection area to their storage containers.

No, do NOT use regular garden hose. These contain regrind rubber with lots of nasty things in them. Use clear milk hose (preferably), although some will use RV potable water hose.

[DrTimPerkins]

I will test it with a candy thermometer, hydrotherm and a refractometer. My goal is to get it to between 67 and 67.5 Brix.


No need to do all that. Thermometer will only get you in the ballpark. Once you're close, use a hydrotherm (correctly) and you'll be fine. Refractometers, although they can be useful, are sensitive to lots of different errors, particularly with hot syrup. 67-67.5 Brix is a bit dense...it'll filter a tad harder and you will see crystal formation in your jars pretty quickly. Shoot for 66.5-67 Brix.

If you're going to mix syrup between runs, check the flavor before doing that. You don't want to mix nasty-tasting stuff (it could happen for various reasons) with good stuff and run a bunch of syrup.

[Swingpure]

DrTimPerkins: “What do you mean by "decent slope"? Any flat parts...if so, where in the run and how long?”

All five runs have slope all of the way. In some cases if you think of a clock where 3 o’clock as flat, the worst I have is where the little hand is at 2:30, most of the slope is at 2:00 and some is at 1:30 or steeper, if that makes sense. My steepest parts are at the start, the least slope parts are in the middle and then it goes steeper for the final 75’+ final run to the barrel. Each of those areas are about a third of the run. Two of the five runs do not have a shallow middle area.





“Did you have actual 3/16" spouts, or 5/16" spouts with 3/16" tubing connectors?”

I have 17/64 spouts for the 3/16 tubing and 5/16 spouts for the buckets.



“No, do NOT use regular garden hose. These contain regrind rubber with lots of nasty things in them. Use clear milk hose (preferably), although some will use RV potable water hose. “

Thanks

[Swingpure]

Today I did pick up 500 more feet of tubing, various fittings and the 5/16 drill bit. When I got back, I ran twine through the path of my fifth run. I really find it a valuable exercise, as I am able to remove tripping hazards, remove branches that are in the way and find the best route for the twine (tubing). You learn what side of intermediate trees to go on, and how high up on a tree to place the line, to ensure proper slope. When it comes time to install the tubing, I just have to follow the twine.

[Swingpure]

No need to do all that. Thermometer will only get you in the ballpark. Once you're close, use a hydrotherm (correctly) and you'll be fine. Refractometers, although they can be useful, are sensitive to lots of different errors, particularly with hot syrup. 67-67.5 Brix is a bit dense...it'll filter a tad harder and you will see crystal formation in your jars pretty quickly. Shoot for 66.5-67 Brix.

If you're going to mix syrup between runs, check the flavor before doing that. You don't want to mix nasty-tasting stuff (it could happen for various reasons) with good stuff and run a bunch of syrup.

Thank you! For some reason I thought 67 - 67.5 Brix was perfect syrup, but I will go for 66.5 to 67 this spring.

Thanks, I will keep each boil batch separate. Lots to learn. Thanks again.

[Swingpure]

No, do NOT use regular garden hose. These contain regrind rubber with lots of nasty things in them. Use clear milk hose (preferably), although some will use RV potable water hose.

The RV potable water hose looks a lot more affordable. Seeing how I have blown past my original budget ten fold, I will likely chose that.

I have been scratching my head on what pump to get. Lots of great suggestions. I tend to be a rules follower and I have trouble accepting a pump that is not NSF/ANSI61 Certified. Am I requiring too much from a pump and are there any pumps, or pump types that you recommend?

Originally I was just looking for something to pump out of a barrel into buckets, but as the tap numbers and lines have increased, I am starting to think I will pump from my four 55 gallon barrels into 55 gallon barrels near my evaporator.

[Swingpure]

Last night, after posting I would have 80 taps, I thought holy frig, that is a lot. How much firewood would I need for that and at a minimum, it would be 5.25 face cords. Driving the 1.5 hours to the CDL store this morning and then back, I thought about it, and thought how I could downsize somewhat, without giving up the lines.

I decided if I dropped the 12 remote buckets, that would save a lot of time and bring me down to 4.5 face cords required. Ironically it would bring me down to 16 sap pickup locations, just like my original 16 buckets were. 4 locations on lines and 12 easy to get to buckets. If I do get a pump and hose to transfer the sap from my collection barrels, to my barrels beside the evaporator that will be a big time saver.

I know that I will have many, many boiling and finishing and bottling hours ahead, but dropping those 12 remote bucket locations is the right thing to do. Besides if I gain 25% improvement on sap volume, from the 3/16 lines, I will make up the volume from the lost taps.

I also know I have a ton to learn and many mistakes to be made, but this is why I don’t mind having more than my original 16 buckets on my maiden year. More boils, means more i will learn and a greater chance for success.

[Sugar Bear]

DrTimPerkins: “What do you mean by "decent slope"? Any flat parts...if so, where in the run and how long?”

All five runs have slope all of the way. In some cases if you think of a clock where 3 o’clock as flat, the worst I have is where the little hand is at 2:30, most of the slope is at 2:00 and some is at 1:30 or steeper, if that makes sense. My steepest parts are at the start, the least slope parts are in the middle and then it goes steeper for the final 75’+ final run to the barrel. Each of those areas are about a third of the run. Two of the five runs do not have a shallow middle area.





“Did you have actual 3/16" spouts, or 5/16" spouts with 3/16" tubing connectors?”

I have 17/64 spouts for the 3/16 tubing and 5/16 spouts for the buckets.



“No, do NOT use regular garden hose. These contain regrind rubber with lots of nasty things in them. Use clear milk hose (preferably), although some will use RV potable water hose. “

Thanks

1:30 is a 45 degree pitch. Be careful on that pitch, it should be difficult to stand on let alone drill tap holes and run tubing on. A potential nightmare for the sugarmaker. Falls on slope of this pitch that are on a slippery surface such as a roof or hard pack corn snow can result in a uncontrolled continuous fall resulting in severe injury or death.

2:00 is a 33 degree pitch. Dream like for the sugarmaker but still potentially dangerous.

2:30 is a 15 degree pitch. Dream like and relatively safe for the sugarmaker.

This terrain sounds steep enough for VERY effective 5/16 natural vacuum tubing given you have runs down this slope to the collection tank of 75 feet or more. "More" in the case of more pitch and more taps and of course that means more vacuum up to a point.


Want to trade properties?

By the way I recommend you get Micro Spikes for your feet.

[Swingpure]

Sorry for asking so many questions. I do Google a lot and search a lot on this site and then read as many pertinent threads as I can to learn. The more I read, the more questions I have.

Today reading one thread, a poster talked about scorching his syrup while pouring it out of the steam pan. After all of that work of collecting and boiling, a batch gets ruined at the last second.

My steam pans sit up a bit, making it easy to lift. Let’s say I boiled 60 gallons of sap and now have almost three inches of almost syrup in the final pan. I will be finishing it somewhere else. My plan is to lift the final pan right out of the position it is in, set it down on the cinder block edge, scoop out what I can into my finishing pot, then pick up the steam pan (which has now cooled down a little) and pour the remaining almost syrup into my finishing pot.

Have I done any “death” moves?

[Sugar Bear]

Sorry for asking so many questions. I do Google a lot and search a lot on this site and then read as many pertinent threads as I can to learn. The more I read, the more questions I have.

Today reading one thread, a poster talked about scorching his syrup while pouring it out of the steam pan. After all of that work of collecting and boiling, a batch gets ruined at the last second.

My steam pans sit up a bit, making it easy to lift. Let’s say I boiled 60 gallons of sap and now have almost three inches of almost syrup in the final pan. I will be finishing it somewhere else. My plan is to lift the final pan right out of the position it is in, set it down on the cinder block edge, scoop out what I can into my finishing pot, then pick up the steam pan (which has now cooled down a little) and pour the remaining almost syrup into my finishing pot.

Have I done any “death” moves?

When I pour my ( close to syrup pan ) off into a pot after lifting it off the fire, I set it down somewhere ( not back on the fire ) and immediately pour close by waiting sap into the pan. Then back to the fire.

Never had anything even remotely close to a scorching problem, sometimes I get some temporary warp/movement thumps from the metal with cold sap going into the warm pan but they don't result in any damage to the metal.

I do not place the empty pan back on the fire for even 1 second without anything in it.

[Sugar Bear]

By the way if I am done with sap, I fill them with 4 or 5 inches of water, When the water gets warm I clean the sides with a cloth.

If you fill them and your fire is still going at all be sure to fill them close to the top. You will be shocked at how much can evaporate overnight even with a dying out fire.

I have started using the steam pan covers. Both at flame on for faster preheating and and flame off times for overnight covering of simmering sap. And to keep critters out. Although have not had that problem without them.

I use a pan cover frequently over pan 1 of my 4 pans as pan 1 serves as a preheat pan and the cover provides faster better preheating.

[Swingpure]

By the way if I am done with sap, I fill them with 4 or 5 inches of water, When the water gets warm I clean the sides with a cloth.

If you fill them and your fire is still going at all be sure to fill them close to the top. You will be shocked at how much can evaporate overnight even with a dying out fire.

I have started using the steam pan covers. Both at flame on for faster preheating and and flame off times for overnight covering of simmering sap. And to keep critters out. Although have not had that problem without them.

I use a pan cover frequently over pan 1 of my 4 pans as pan 1 serves as a preheat pan and the cover provides faster better preheating.

Thanks, lots of good tips there!

Right at the start of the season, as soon as I get 30 gallons of sap collected, I will start boiling, so I can learn. I will run out of sap as the day goes on and will do as you suggest, fill the empty pans with water and clean them.

I never thought about using steam pans lids and I never thought of leaving the pans with sap in them overnight. I always thought of poring them off into a big pot and keeping it in the fridge, but I see now that the nighttime temps will be cool enough to leave them in the pans, saving a number of steps.

My diminutive temporary sugar shed is for the most part, a cover and sides to keep precipitation off the evaporator. There is not a lot extra work room in it. I am going to build a small portable structure, call it 5’x4’, with metal roof and sides for my dual induction stove, which will stand fairly close to the sugar shed. I will use it to pre warm sap while I am boiling, and if the weather is not too foul, will use it as my finishing location. While finishing I hope to keep an eye on the pans still on the evaporator and add more sap to any that look like they will get too low overnight.

Now to check out buying steam pan lids on Amazon.

[aamyotte]

Thanks, lots of good tips there!

Right at the start of the season, as soon as I get 30 gallons of sap collected, I will start boiling, so I can learn. I will run out of sap as the day goes on and will do as you suggest, fill the empty pans with water and clean them.

I never thought about using steam pans lids and I never thought of leaving the pans with sap in them overnight. I always thought of poring them off into a big pot and keeping it in the fridge, but I see now that the nighttime temps will be cool enough to leave them in the pans, saving a number of steps.

My diminutive temporary sugar shed is for the most part, a cover and sides to keep precipitation off the evaporator. There is not a lot extra work room in it. I am going to build a small portable structure, call it 5’x4’, with metal roof and sides for my dual induction stove, which will stand fairly close to the sugar shed. I will use it to pre warm sap while I am boiling, and if the weather is not too foul, will use it as my finishing location. While finishing I hope to keep an eye on the pans still on the evaporator and add more sap to any that look like they will get too low overnight.

Now to check out buying steam pan lids on Amazon.
Instead of steam pan lids try a piece of foil.

[Swingpure]

Instead of steam pan lids try a piece of foil.

Lol, before I read your post, I looked up the steam pan lids on line and they cost almost as much as the pans. I said Yeesh to myself and thought I could just use tin foil. Thanks for the reaffirming tip.

[aamyotte]

Lol, before I read your post, I looked up the steam pan lids on line and they cost almost as much as the pans. I said Yeesh to myself and thought I could just use tin foil. Thanks for the reaffirming tip.
Just make sure to leave some in the kitchen for your wife.��

[Sugar Bear]

I was using tin foil before splurging for the lids.

Trust me, I am GLAD I bought the lids.

Much easier and much faster then tin foil.

Critters, the small ones anyway will have a much easier time with tin foil.

The main reason I did not recommend foil is that its AWFULLY tough to put a brick or Belgium block on top of .... if you want to secure your lid on top of the pan.

There are about 7 other good reasons to use lids over foil as well.

You should be able to get the lids for around $12 each as opposed to $24 each.

Da Bear!

[Swingpure]

I was using tin foil before splurging for the lids.

Trust me, I am GLAD I bought the lids.

Much easier and much faster then tin foil.

Critters, the small ones anyway will have a much easier time with tin foil.

The main reason I did not recommend foil is that its AWFULLY tough to put a brick or Belgium block on top of .... if you want to secure your lid on top of the pan.

There are about 7 other good reasons to use lids over foil as well.

You should be able to get the lids for around $12 each as opposed to $24 each.

Da Bear!

I searched a little more on the web and found them for almost a third of the price of the others I had seen. I book marked the site and will get them before the sap season starts. Next purchase is a Shurflo 4138 pump.

[Swingpure]

A relative of mine has a few taps and boils and finishes his sap on a portable induction stove. I thought that would be great for me to finish the syrup outside of the house. I also thought I could boil some sap on the range, while also boiling on the evaporator. When I decided to add a fifth pan for warming, that freed up the two pots I had planned to go on the warming plate. I could use the two pots on the range to either help with the preheating of the sap, or to boil the sap. Preheating I can add two gallons of boiling sap to the evaporator, at least every 20 minutes.

The range is an indoor range, so I thought I would build a structure to shelter it. Looking at it you would think what the frig is that. It is portable, barely and hopefully will allow me on most days to add a little more heat to the process. I tend to overbuild things.

I also tested the GFCI plug to make sure it could handle the load from two boiling pots and it passed the test with no issues.


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[Swingpure]

Today the benefit of running a twine line for pre planning a tubing route paid off. I ran twine for tubing lines 4 and 5. Line 4 went as I envisioned and tomorrow I will go and clean away tripping hazards and wayward branches.

When I was halfway through running line 5, I stopped and looked back. I was breaking two major rules. Too many zig zags and a long relatively flat run in the middle. There was never a real steep run anywhere except the first 20’. I had just been trying to connect a number of trees in one area, with a number of trees in another area, with a long flat area in between. I decided not to do the run. I have more than enough taps without it and I if want the extra taps, I can add buckets to the largest, healthiest trees in the group.

I will probably be running my 3/16 line in about three weeks.

This morning was raining, so I put graduated marks on all of my five gallon pails. The fifth steam pan should arrive tomorrow. With temperatures dropping next week, I may do a fourth boil test on the evaporator. The last ones I did the temps with the humidex, was close to 40° C (104° F). I should get a lot more draft with temps closer to 10° C (50° F). I want to see how well pans 4 and 5 boil.

[Swingpure]

I was able to add the fifth line after all. I added two trees and removed one. That made it have a steeper overall drop, removed a zag and changed the angle, length and slope for the long middle run.

All five runs have a 35 to 40 foot overall drop and all have a long, uninterrupted final run to the collection barrel. Two of the runs have 14 taps, and the other three have 12 taps, for a total of 64 taps on lines and another 21 taps on easy to get to buckets. That is a total of 85 taps. The number of taps increased, when I lowered the threshold for two taps from 20 to 18”.

The steam pan arrived today. I wanted to see how the four inch deep pan sitting on a two inch higher level, lined up with the six inch pan, but I ran out of time, will check that tomorrow.

I hope to order the Shurflo 4138 pump in the next week or two. I was going to buy a RV hose to go with it. One short piece and I was thinking 200’ of hose, but then I thought, it is just me most of the time, how am I going to be at the pump end turning it on and off and be at the other end of the hose keeping it in whatever container and knowing whatever container is full. I am thinking that I can only pump from the barrel into 5 gallon pails beside me. Now I can do the same with the rain barrel spigot, but in doing so I would have to tilt the barrel, pulling it out of the mound of snow I will have encompassing the barrels.

Not sure if the RV hose connects directly to the Shurflo pump, or if I have to buy a garden hose sized adapter?

[Swingpure]

Sometimes I say to myself 80+ taps, are you crazy, then I read the syrup produced per tap in some signatures and often it is quite less than 1 Litre/quart per tree.

I took the stats from one detailed signature, that is about 100 miles from me, and it seems the largest variable is the amount of sap collected each year.. Ideally you would get 40 L (10 gallons) per tree, but some years it can be considerably less.

In the example I used, the average was 33.1 L per tree, (5 of the 8 years were below the average), but the amount of sap required to make 1 L of syrup was almost dead on at the expected 1 litre of syrup per 40L of sap (1 quart per 10 gallons).

Having too many taps may be a good thing, some years.

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[Wannabe]

Do you have any other syrup makers in your area that would buy your excess sap if you get some bigger runs than you can keep up with?

[Swingpure]

Do you have any other syrup makers in your area that would buy your excess sap if you get some bigger runs than you can keep up with?

Might be an option, I have no idea how much you would sell a gallon of sap for.

[Wannabe]

https://blog.uvm.edu/farmvia/?p=1378

Last year I think it was $0.13(U.S.) a point.

If you find someone who buys sap it could get you out of some extra long boils, and make a little money to boot, to offset a little of your costs.

[DrTimPerkins]

The price for selling sap depends on a lot of things, and isn't always as simple as you might think. The main thing comes down to whether or not there is one or more people in the area willing to buy your sap. If so, a simple calculation can be found at: https://mapleresearch.org/pub/m0216sapprices/ or a more detailed calculation and calculator at: https://www.uvm.edu/extension/agriculture/maple/bizmodules/node/add/sap-pricing

[Swingpure]

Last night just before going to bed, I resolved my pump set up. I have four collection 55 gallon barrels in three locations. I will put three fully charged AGM deep cycle batteries in battery boxes at each location. I think even in the cold, each battery could last the whole sap season without getting recharged. Even so, they are all within an extension cord away of getting recharged.

My pump will be mounted on a board, with an on/off switch on the board and alligator clips at the ends of the wire to connect to the batteries. I will pump into five gallon pails. Two of the three locations it will mean no or a short distance to carry the pails to my ATV trailer, the third location will be a longer carry, but manageable.

[aamyotte]

Have you bought the batteries already?

If not, since you mention that the batteries are within extension cord distance it would be quite a bit less expensive to omit the batteries and use a 120v to 12v DC converter. They are approx. $40 on Amazon. Using this method, you could install the converter in a waterproof box and have the extension cord power the converter. Then you can run low voltage wiring to each pump from the converter to a switch at the pump. Then just flick on the switch and you're pumping.

This way you know you have power and don't need to worry about recharging the batteries. It also eliminates the costs and maintenance associated with using batteries.

[DRoseum]

Or use a guzzler 400-h diaphragm hand pump. They are awesome and you can just move from barrel to barrel with it. They get 7 - 10 gpm with 5 - 7 strokes per gallon. Very easy/nice to use.

[Swingpure]

Have you bought the batteries already?

If not, since you mention that the batteries are within extension cord distance it would be quite a bit less expensive to omit the batteries and use a 120v to 12v DC converter. They are approx. $40 on Amazon. Using this method, you could install the converter in a waterproof box and have the extension cord power the converter. Then you can run low voltage wiring to each pump from the converter to a switch at the pump. Then just flick on the switch and you're pumping.

This way you know you have power and don't need to worry about recharging the batteries. It also eliminates the costs and maintenance associated with using batteries.

Thanks for the tip, I already have the batteries and they are very good, long lasting batteries. It would surprise me if they need to be recharged. I fish with my trolling motor on my boat with them for days on a single charge.

Thanks though.

[Swingpure]

Or use a guzzler 400-h diaphragm hand pump. They are awesome and you can just move from barrel to barrel with it. They get 7 - 10 gpm with 5 - 7 strokes per gallon. Very easy/nice to use.


That is a nice looking hand pump. I have a person that can get a bit of a deal,on a Shurflo 4138 pump and maybe able to get a better deal on another suitable pump. If that falls through, I will consider this hand pump.

Thanks

[Swingpure]

I spoke to a local sugar maker and he told me that in 2020, the sap started running on February 23rd. I went and I looked at the weather records for that time and you could see why it started to run then, it would have run for a few days then stopped for a few days and then ran really well all of March and into April.

I looked back at my photographs during that time period. The first photo was taken on February 23rd, 2020, looking down our lake.

I plow all of the snow from my parking areas into a 15’ deep ravine, making a snow bridge to the other side. In the second picture taken March 2, 2020, I am touching a tree on the far bank of the ravine. I can also see the snow on the shed roofs. I was hoping for an early start to the sap season, but now I am thinking the more typical first or second week of March is not looking too bad.

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[Pdiamond]

Gary, how long does that snow last all piled up in that deep of a ravine?

[Swingpure]

Gary, how long does that snow last all piled up in that deep of a ravine?

It is all gone by mid May. I may use it for storing sap if i need to.

When I first did it, I was concerned about damming up the low volume creek. The reality was there was zero damming, the water went through and under the snow. It is always fun “building” the snow bridge with my ATV and plow. I always reach the tree on the far bank between Feb 27 and March 2nd, then the snow starts to recede. We don’t seem to get a lot of snow in March, which is a good thing, because it takes me several hours to plow all of the parking areas and driveway, which would cut into boiling time.

2 hours south of us in the Toronto area, they have green grass for a month or more longer than us in the Fall and the same for the Spring. Our snow in the forests disappear sometime mid to late April.

[Swingpure]

I built a two piece wood form today to hold nine, 5 gallon pails in my ATV trailer. Although I still do not have my pump yet, on the board that I will mount the pump on, I will have a remote control on off switch, so I can pump from my four 55 gallon collection barrels into the five gallon pails. I have twenty 5 gallon pails now, all graduated.

Next year if I move my evaporator behind the garage or if I set up an RO in the garage, I will be able to pump the four locations into one central location.

I will be using a RV water hose to go from the pump into the barrels. Would I have to clean off the outside and inside of the hose each day?

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[aamyotte]

You probably should rinse out the hose and your pump as well.

[Swingpure]

You probably should rinse out the hose and your pump as well.

Thanks!

Access to water, to clean everything I need to, will be one of my challenges. I only have one outside tap and I do not like to open it if the temps are below zero. I can see a lot of buckets of water coming out from the kitchen.

[aamyotte]

Do you have a laundry tub in the laundry room? I use that to do my rinsing out. Works great.

[Swingpure]

Do you have a laundry tub in the laundry room? I use that to do my rinsing out. Works great.

I wish we did. When we purchased our place on the lake, it did not have a laundry room. We built an addition that included a laundry room and originally had planned to have a laundry tub, but restrictions on how large we could build it, nixed the laundry tub.

If this becomes a growing hobby in the future, I may have to find other options.

In the meantime I might use the shower in the addition to clean some items, like the 5 gallon pails. That will be a case where I ask for forgiveness as opposed to permission.

[Swingpure]

The first thing I will doing as we get close to the sap running, is shoveling out the snow around the evaporator, then constructing my modular sugar shed. It should go up in about a half a day. I will do that likely mid February.

Then the next question is when should I start actually tapping. My original thought was to watch the weather and the progress of sap coming out, on the SapTapApp on the flow maps, but then I came across this article this morning: https://northernwoodlands.org/articles/article/when-is-the-best-time-for-sugarmakers-to-tap-their-maple-trees

It made it sound like you could tap early and it would not affect your overall yield. From another post, I was told the sugar content of early runs can be lower making it less profitable.

I am thinking that after my sugar shed is built, I may tap, a week or so before I see the first warm weather appearing. The long range seasonal forecast is calling for some early mild stretches, so I might be able to get some practice sap from some early runs. It could be a little bit of waste of wood, but worth it gaining experience.

[Pdiamond]

Once you tap the tree, you will get anywhere from 6 to 8 weeks of run time before the healing process begins and the flow stops. I know I have read that others may get a longer time but I believe they are using pumps on the tubing.

[Swingpure]

I went out today do a few chores, but one was to buy a fine mesh strainer for removing the foam and any floating foreign objects in the boiling sap.

While I was in the kitchen section I saw another strainer that was flat and looked like the same diameter as a 5 gallon pail. I took it over to the pails and it was a good fit. I am going to use it when I pour the sap from the tree buckets into the pails, to strain away the larger objects in the sap. I can simply rinse off the strainer at the end of the day. (It actually has a fairly fine mesh and should catch most objects)

(In the picture, it is sitting on a piece of plywood, that will not be the case when I do it.)

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0SSqhhG8rgC3uMYN15QYLNdYg

[Pdiamond]

That will work very good for you. It's actually a splatter guard for your frying pan when you cook bacon, so put it to use in the off season.

[Swingpure]

That will work very good for you. It's actually a splatter guard for your frying pan when you cook bacon, so put it to use in the off season.

Lol, That reveals how much I cook bacon!

[Pdiamond]

Oh but you have the luxury of being able to buy pemeal bacon and those delicious cottage rolls. I love them both.

[Swingpure]

Oh but you have the luxury of being able to buy pemeal bacon and those delicious cottage rolls. I love them both.

I love peameal bacon, but I have never had a cottage roll. I may have to give up my Canadian Citizenship.

[Pdiamond]

The pork cottage roll is something that I have only found in Canada. They are expensive, but oh so yummy. I cook them in a crock pot. I miss going to Canada.

[Swingpure]

Yesterday I mentioned I had trees that I was going to add some additional buckets to, when the snow levels lowered. This morning I thought about six of those taps and thought I had a hec of a time just walking that stretch in the fall, let alone carrying 5 gallon pails with sap in them.

It was a beautiful day and I had some extra 3/16 tubing, so I ran a seventh line, with 6 taps, on a really good slope and a nice long fairly steep “crux”. I only had four spouts left, so I installed those drops. One more easy one to do and then one where the line is quite high on the tree. I thought I read somewhere, that you could add a drop below a line, but maybe that was only on vacuum systems. I may have to get a ladder to put the sixth drop up.

Because of where I was going to put the collection barrel for the line, I could extend the “crux” of another line to it as well. There was also three trees within four feet of the barrel and I ran a short steep, four drop line that will also go into the same barrel.

I now have 7 lines, (75 drops on the lines), two of which are quite short. Three of them have 13 drops, are steep all of the way and have a good “crux” Two of them have 11 drops, steep at the start, then a fairly long less steep section, then a fairly good drop at the end. There is the 6 drop line I installed today. Steep with a long “crux”. Finally two, four drop lines, that are short in length, both steep and one with a good steep section at the end.

That leaves me with 9 buckets, with an option for five more.

I inspected all of my lines today. There were a few cases where the spout came out of the holder on the tee. We just had a pretty good wind storm, so I am not sure if that is normal for them to come out?

[Swingpure]

I purchased another induction cooktop today. This time a single element for a total of three elements. This should produce 9 gallons of boiling sap an hour, which should meet the sap needs of my evaporator. Essentially about every 6.5 minutes, I can add a gallon of boiling sap to the evaporator.

On days that I have a finite amount of sap, part way through, I will switch the induction cook tops from being a preheater to a boiler.

[Pdiamond]

I think I can forsee a 2 x 4 pan in your future for 2023?

[Swingpure]

I think I can forsee a 2 x 4 pan in your future for 2023?

We will see how this season goes. My five pans would have similar square footage to a 2x4 pan, but a lot less scooping. I could actually fit a 2x5 pan. Not sure if getting too big of a pan is a bad thing.

If I get a bigger pan, do you get a flat pan, or a divided pan or at one point does it not make sense to get too fancy on a cinder block evaporator.

Is it March yet? Man I can’t wait!

[therealtreehugger]

You seriously need to look into the RO Bucket. Since you are going pretty much all out on your first season, why not throw in an RO? Mine saved a ton of time and firewood!

[Pdiamond]

As much as you are getting involved in this recreational pastime that all of us await the first hint of when we can tap. I truly believe you would be so much more happy with an arch, flue pan, syrup pan set up. Along with the RO you would be trying to figure out how to add more taps. I am very happy to see how excited you are for the up-coming season. hopefully it will be a good one for your first year.

[Swingpure]

You seriously need to look into the RO Bucket. Since you are going pretty much all out on your first season, why not throw in an RO? Mine saved a ton of time and firewood!

The RO bucket is not readily available in Canada. I believe there is one distributor in Quebec, but it is sold at a premium.

I have not given up on the ideal of building my own RO. I asked enough questions, I am pretty sure I could build and operate it. I have gone over my original budget 8+ times, so I have to watch what I spend this year, keeping in mind I can buy things next year as well.

I still do not have my Shurflo pump yet. I will get a deal on it and maybe even get it for free. If I get it for free, I may go for the RO unit. I realize that it will save boiling time and wood supply, but it is another thing you have to do and another thing you have to clean. Doing all of this myself, I am not sure I need one more thing to do.

After this year, I will have a better understanding of what I need to do. Do I downsize, do I up size, do I move to a larger pan or specialized pan, do I improve my evaporator, do I buy a real RO unit?

Although unlikely, if a neighbour would allow me to tap his property, I could add 200+ taps on perfectly sloped ground for 3/16 tubing. Not sure if I will ask.

But for this year, I have to drill my first tap ever, which I have never seen live done, I have to see my first drop of sap, I have to see sap boil for the first time live and I have to make Grade A syrup.

[Brian]

I think the ro will save you the time of boiling to give you time to clean it and do what needs to be done. Or you will need need a bigger evaporator. This is how the game is played, you change one thing then if only I had a bigger house, Boy if only I had A bigger evaporator, now a bigger ro, and finally now I need more taps. Ps. don't forget barrells. Then your wife thinks you lost it!! Iam glad she loves me.

[LMP Maple]

I agree on the R/O. I have watched your posts and your enthusiasm is awesome to see. I can tell you are excited. I can tell you right now that you are going to be buried in sap. I switched over the 3/16 on most of my trees last year. I had no where near as many trees as you and I was buried to the point where the first thing I ordered after the season was a nano CDL RO. This will be the first year using it but I will let you know how it goes. I spent 52 hours in the Sugarhouse boiling last year. All at night after work and it will never run on the weekends for me anyway. I spent a lot of time making a list of the things I wanted for the 2022 season number one was the R/O. The eight hours that it takes roughly to sweeten my pans is perhaps the most frustrating part of boiling with raw sap. To cut just that down with the R/O will be nice
Have fun. I can tell you will. Don't take anything to seriously. I see a bigger operation in your future. This is the track that most people take the barrel evaporator or turkey fryer and it takes off from there. For me I am at the point where I am trying to get to about the 100 tap limit with maximum efficiency then I will be satisfied.............I think................

[Swingpure]

I agree on the R/O. I have watched your posts and your enthusiasm is awesome to see. I can tell you are excited. I can tell you right now that you are going to be buried in sap. I switched over the 3/16 on most of my trees last year. I had no where near as many trees as you and I was buried to the point where the first thing I ordered after the season was a nano CDL RO. This will be the first year using it but I will let you know how it goes. I spent 52 hours in the Sugarhouse boiling last year. All at night after work and it will never run on the weekends for me anyway. I spent a lot of time making a list of the things I wanted for the 2022 season number one was the R/O. The eight hours that it takes roughly to sweeten my pans is perhaps the most frustrating part of boiling with raw sap. To cut just that down with the R/O will be nice
Have fun. I can tell you will. Don't take anything to seriously. I see a bigger operation in your future. This is the track that most people take the barrel evaporator or turkey fryer and it takes off from there. For me I am at the point where I am trying to get to about the 100 tap limit with maximum efficiency then I will be satisfied.............I think................

Thank you for the advice! A few of my friends who have made maple syrup in the past have also warned me about being overwhelmed with sap. The one thing in my favour is I have the time to boil almost every day, all day long to help me keep up. Without a doubt this year will be a huge learning experience.

“ In 2373, Chakotay told Kathryn Janeway a parable he heard as a child, about a scorpion and a fox. In his own words:

"A scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side. Suddenly he saw a fox. He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river. The fox said, "No, if I do that you'll sting me, and I'll drown." The scorpion assured him, "If I did that, we'd both drown." So the fox thought about it and finally agreed. So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim. But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him. As the poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "why did you do that? Now you'll drown too." "I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "It's my nature.” “

You must saying what does that have to do with anything. Lol. When I first started this summer, I decided on acting on a desire to make Maple Syrup for the first time. As a kid or an adult I had never seen a sugar shack or sap boiled. The last few years, I started to chat with my neighbour’s about making maple syrup and decided I would go for it. The original plan was to do 16 buckets just to see if I liked it, with a budget of around $500. 16 buckets grew to 26 and grew several more times. I am an all in type of guy, “It’s my nature”. My wife totally knowing who I am, and is for the most part turning a blind eye to what I am doing. (Except building the sugar shed within eyesight)

If I was still working, I would go out and buy a good RO, without thinking, but 11 years retired and too much of my savings spent on improving my paradise, I have to watch my money a little bit, especially when my $500 limit, closes in on $5000 in expenditures.

I have read so many posts on how people after two/three years of boiling, have switched to a RO unit and wished they had done it sooner. I asked a ton of questions about the RO unit and tried to find an inexpensive way of making one, but I haven’t. It always adds up to $500+ dollars, all of which I have to get on line and it includes some items that will not fly under the radar.

I have not given up on a RO unit for this year, but it will be on the radar for next year. I will improve, “It’s my nature”.

[Swingpure]

I iced fished yesterday and caught a nice lake trout and pike. Today was chilly out and without the ice hut in place yet, I worked in the garage getting my pumping system closer to completion. The quick connect cable on/off switch arrived yesterday and I attached that to the wood form on the ATV trailer, that will hold the five gallon pails and ran the cable to the ATV.

I also cut the board that will sit on my 55 gallon collection barrels, which the pump will eventually be attached to. I added the posts for the electrical connection between the pump and the quick connect cable. My ATV will power the pump. The on off switch attached to the trailer will allow me to control the pump as I fill the 11, 5 gallon pails. (The pump in the picture is not attached and is not in it’s final position.)

The one issue I am having with the pump, is that other than the plastic barb fitting that comes with the pump, I cannot find a fitting that will screw onto the 1/2” npt male outlet. The plastic barb fitting will screw onto the pump and onto different 1/2” npt pipe. The different 1/2” npt pipe will fit into some female fittings, but those female fittings will not screw onto the pump. I am still working on that one. It is a puzzler.

The third major component for the RO arrived today, so I have the pump, the housing and 5 micron filter, and the two 150 GPD membranes and housings. I am still waiting for the pressure gauge and needle valve. I then have to get some fittings and hoses, but that will be the last thing I do.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0ddxxzmMinuP2OpCBvif7CBBg

https://share.icloud.com/photos/002muuhwtF4_tv2lbTvoCwm-Q

[MajorWoodchuck]

Welcome to the addiction Swingpure. As a "experienced" veteran.. I mean junkie... with one whole season behind me, I can relate to where you are think you will be happy you are starting out with a RO. Reading post on this forum and being able to see what is working and not working for others put me years ahead of someone starting out with a pot over an open fire - like my sister had tried a few years earlier. She said it was interesting but the syrup was smoky tasting and it took forever to boil down to get the couple of resulting pints of syrup. She never caught the itch.

I set myself a budget of about $100 for trying this out:
$40 for 9 used half sized hotel pans and a file cabinet to make an arch from.
$40 for tubing and 30 taps
I knew I wanted a RO for starting out - but couldn't quite justify $300 for a full RO system - just to try out this syrup hobby. I thought I could just increase my budget to $150 and got a 400 GPD RO membrane and housing from Ebay, and a 10 micron hose filter from our local building center for $10. I had a bronze gear pump and thought that would be fine to drive the RO. I connected it to a variable speed 10:1 gearmotor because I was worried about creating too much flow and pressure - being and positive displacement pump. When I fired it up for the first time - first week of the season, I was disappointed to find out to pump was only able to deliver 20 psi. Maybe I was running it too slow or there was too much internal leakage.
I spent the first weekend boiling down sap for from scratch. I didn't have time to figure out the problem with the pump as the sap was running so I opened up my wallet and purchased an Aquatec 8852 pump for $100. So much for my budget...I was all in at this point.
I added this pump to my system and VICTORY, I started pulling water from the sap. I was a little surprised how little the trickle was coming from the condensate and concentrate lines. I had envisioned a fully pressured stream like what comes from my sink water filter faucet. It was more like a slow trickle one notch above a dribble. But it was still saving boiling time all the water collected was water I didn't need to boil off. I found it worked best to run it overnight on recirculating a 55 gal barrel of sap with another barrel collecting the permeate (water). By morning the sap barrel was only 1/4 - 1/3 full with the remainder of water in the other barrel.
By doing it this way I could run a higher flow rate on my sap concentration side than my permeate - which I believe will cause less clogging of the membrane.
I would then start boiling this off as I started the RO on the next barrel of sap. I was running 40 taps on 5/16 drop lines going into 5 gallon cleaned out fry oil jugs.

I am now building my second file cabinet arch to run besides my first one - kind of like a double barrel boiler. I bough 4 new full size pans to do less ladling compared to half sized pans. I also forked out another $50 for an additional 400GPD RO membrane to double my output for my second year. I am basically doubling everything to double my output with about the same amount of effort. The whole family is in on this too and everyone is looking forward to the sap season starting.

From what I am reading it is possible to have too big of a pan in that a larger pan requires a larger batch of sap to be able to finish it down to syrup or even near-up. The great thing about hotel pans is that when you start to run out of sap you can transfer everything to less and less pans and fill the empty pans with snow or water to keep them from burning - finally ending up with a single pan of syrup. I have a 2ft x 6ft stainless pan from a buffet serving line I want to turn into my next arch but i too wonder if that will be too big. i calculate it would take about 11 gallons to fill it to 1.5 inches. That means 550 gallons of sap to make one batch (11 gal) of syrup.

An important lesson I learned was to have a can of spray cooking oil handy when boiling for when the "foam monsters" start to attack. A quick half second spray and the foam disappears...for awhile.

[Swingpure]

MajorWoodchuck are their support groups for people like us?

Thanks for sharing your story!

I also think there is an advantage in some respects with steam pans, that in a way it gives you more control. I also think with multiple pans you could make two batches in a single boil.

I didn’t have the budget to go for the 400 gpd membrane, but I am already wishing I had found a way. Something for next year.

For me, it will be likely for 98% of the time, just me doing it. The kids and Grandkids are in different cities/towns and my wife, at least for the moment has only signed on to help bottling. I have tried to tailor my “operation” to be done by one person.

I am sure I will have a lot of learning experiences this year. It is kind of neat just saying this year. We are getting closer to the sap flowing.

There are a number of trees that were not on the plan to tap. I am debating tapping them a little early, and whatever they produce before I tap for real is bonus, and that may give me some experience boiling, before the big show starts.

Good luck this season!

Gary

[MajorWoodchuck]

You might be surprised how many people take an interest once you get it setup. Last year it was mostly myself that initiated everything but my father in law (who originally owned the woods before passing it on to me in a deal I couldn't refuse) helped me for two weekends and my wife and two of my adult kids came up for another two weekends. This year they are all waiting for the sap to start flowing and want to ask their friends and other relatives to come up and be part of the process. If you setup a little wind block there is nothing cozier than gathering around the boilers with the steam rising ladling sap from one pan to the next. You'll find their is nothing better than ladling some of the almost done syrup in your coffee or waffles as you hang out by the boilers. My mistake last year was not tapping soon enough. I had a Florida trip planned for the end of Feb and planned on tapping trees the beginning of March when I returned. Well I found out from people up the road that they tapped 2 weeks earlier and some of the heaviest flows were in those first 2 week. My land is in Northeast Wisconsin so it looks like about the same elevation as you but maybe being east of the Great Lakes affects your season differently. Just remember that it's time for the season to end when the buds come out or you stop having fun.
As far as deciding which trees to tap...not sure what your woods is like. I don't think there is a problem tapping a little early. Are your trees mostly maples? I have a mix of 25% red maple, 75% oak, pine, and aspen. It's surprising how much the oaks and maples look alike in February. Spent a lot of time last year scratching my head trying to determine which tree was which. Think I only tapped one oak. That tree didn't produce sap (never heard of oak syrup). This year I learned and started painting a red dot on the Maple trees in summer when it was easy to tell the difference. I think I have about 100 trees marked with only about 1/4 of the 40 acres that are accessible in Spring by ATV.

[Swingpure]

You might be surprised how many people take an interest once you get it setup. Last year it was mostly myself that initiated everything but my father in law (who originally owned the woods before passing it on to me in a deal I couldn't refuse) helped me for two weekends and my wife and two of my adult kids came up for another two weekends. This year they are all waiting for the sap to start flowing and want to ask their friends and other relatives to come up and be part of the process. If you setup a little wind block there is nothing cozier than gathering around the boilers with the steam rising ladling sap from one pan to the next. You'll find their is nothing better than ladling some of the almost done syrup in your coffee or waffles as you hang out by the boilers. My mistake last year was not tapping soon enough. I had a Florida trip planned for the end of Feb and planned on tapping trees the beginning of March when I returned. Well I found out from people up the road that they tapped 2 weeks earlier and some of the heaviest flows were in those first 2 week. My land is in Northeast Wisconsin so it looks like about the same elevation as you but maybe being east of the Great Lakes affects your season differently. Just remember that it's time for the season to end when the buds come out or you stop having fun.
As far as deciding which trees to tap...not sure what your woods is like. I don't think there is a problem tapping a little early. Are your trees mostly maples? I have a mix of 25% red maple, 75% oak, pine, and aspen. It's surprising how much the oaks and maples look alike in February. Spent a lot of time last year scratching my head trying to determine which tree was which. Think I only tapped one oak. That tree didn't produce sap (never heard of oak syrup). This year I learned and started painting a red dot on the Maple trees in summer when it was easy to tell the difference. I think I have about 100 trees marked with only about 1/4 of the 40 acres that are accessible in Spring by ATV.

I did mark all of my maple trees in the summer with orange tape, and then eventually a darker paint dot. I ran my lines in October. My nine bucket trees I know exactly where they are. I also know exactly where my extra taps are that I might tap early.

Our forest is a mixed forest. 95%+ of the maples are sugar maples, we have lots of oak, white and yellow birch, basswood, poplar, ironwood, then lots of coniferous trees, white pines, cedar and hemlock. I just have 1.7 acres, but with my neighbour’s sharing, it adds up to maybe 4 acres of possible trees.

We are at a similar latitude and our sap may start flowing at a similar time. I like Wisconsin, I have been there a few times on my Railroad past.

If after my first season, I want to do more, I have other neighbour’s that have perfect sugar bushes with lots of slope and lots of trees. It will take some real finesse and maybe 500 gallons of free sap, to have a chance at tapping their untouched property. But first things first, to get my first drop of sap this season.

There is lots of winter left, including the coldest months, but I just feel the sap will run early this year. That may be more of a hopeful wish than an educated one, but so far winter has not been too bad. We do have snow on the ground, but not a lot and we do have ice on the lake, but not a lot.

I do have some friends that are up for part of the winter that might help a little. In the spring and fall we harvest a lot of firewood together, but most of them have had some experience with maple syrup years ago and it is sort of, been there, done that, and they did things the old fashion way and when I talk about Brix or lines, or RO units, their eyes just kind of roll over. The sap was syrup, when it looked and tasted like syrup and how it sheeted off a spoon. Nothing wrong with that for personal use.

We are getting closer. In little over a months time, I will be shoveling out the snow around my evaporator, then reassembling my sugar shed, then I will look for opportunities to try a few early season bonus taps. In January I want to finish building my pumping system and finish building my RO.

[Swingpure]

The last time I posted my plan was back in July and a lot of things have changed, with the RO being a big part of it.

Here is my plan. I have 9 buckets in my yard and 27 buckets about 5 minutes away. I have three collection barrels on my property. One that has 3 lines and 28 taps (13/11/4) feeding it, another that has two lines 24 taps (13/11) and a third barrel that has three lines 23 taps (13/6/4).

My goal is to process up to 120 gallons of raw sap, 60 gallons of concentrated sap each day, if available.

I would start the day off at 6:30 am, collect the sap from the 9 buckets and put them into my sap barrel for the RO. I would then pump out one of the collection barrels into 5 gallon pails and dump them into the RO sap barrel.

At this point I will grab my RO from the heated garage, hook it up in the unheated shelter and immediately start the RO. I have been told that even if the temperature is below freezing, that with the RO running, the membranes will not freeze. The goal is to get enough concentrate in approximately three hours to “fill” the 5 pans and the three preheat pots and have some surplus. I expect that my evaporator will outpace my RO, hence the need for some starting surplus.

While the RO is running, I will head over and get the sap from the 27 buckets and put them into the RO sap barrel. I will then pump out the two remaining collection barrels into five gallon pails. These pails will be emptied into the RO sap barrel until I have put in 132 gallons of raw sap.

I have about 2.5 hours to do this. In the last half hour I get the evaporator ready, loaded with wood, concentrated sap in the five pans and into the three pots that will preheat the sap to a boil on induction elements. As each pan is filled, I will put a pan lid on it to keep anything out and to help it initially get to a boil.

I start one of the pots on the element, and will start the other two in 6 minute intervals. One pot should come to a boil every 6 to 7 minutes.

I start the fire for the evaporator, and will fill it with wood every 6 minutes.

The hope is that all five pans will come to a brisk boil. I know the first four from the door will for sure. The fifth pan by the stove pipe hopefully will also come to a boil. I will transfer the sap from the fifth pan to the 4th, to the 3rd, etc. The first pan will be where I bring the sap to almost syrup, before taking it off to finish later. Of note pans 1 to 4 are six inch deep pans and pan 5 is a four inch deep pan. I will use the boiling sap from the pots to feed the evaporator.

I have ceramic blanket material on the ends and the sides to help keep the heat from going up too far up the pans.

As I transfer all of the boiling sap from one pan to another, if I have extra concentrate, I will put it into the empty pan to get it partially boiled for the next day. If I do not have any concentrate left, I will put water in it. I will have defoamer and a mesh scoop at the ready and will have a long temperature probe in pan 1.

One question I have is I read posts about burning the nearup as they poured it out of the pan. I am not sure I understand that.

When the RO has finished pumping the raw sap, I will switch the intake from the sap RO barrel to the permeate barrel and flush out the membranes for 15 minutes. If I have finished taking the nearup out of pan 1, I will take the flushed RO back into the heated garage.

The nearup will be poured into my finishing pot and I will finish it after I have finished flushing out the pumps and cleaning my pails and barrels.

I will finish the syrup in the finishing pot on an induction stove, my goal is to get to 66.9 or 67 Brix. I have a hydrotherm and a refractometer to help me nail it down.

I will wet my pail filters and pour the finished syrup, while still hot, into the filters and into my bottling pot. If time permits, I will bottle the syrup, bringing it back up to between 180 and 190, stirring frequently and then pour it into preheated bottles, tighten the cap and let the bottles lay on their sides for a minute, then stand them up. If they are 250 ml or smaller, I will have the bottles touching, if they are larger, the bottles will be separated until they cool.

[tpathoulas]

Sorry if this has been asked. I'm curious about the induction stove top. This heats with magnets, correct? I've heard you can put your hand on the hot plate and it will not burn, unless there is heat from a pot you are heating. Does this mean no hot spots on the bottom of the pan? meaning no niter formation as long as below 190 f, correct? Seems like a great way to go. Please share your experience. I'm intrigued by induction.

[Swingpure]

Sorry if this has been asked. I'm curious about the induction stove top. This heats with magnets, correct? I've heard you can put your hand on the hot plate and it will not burn, unless there is heat from a pot you are heating. Does this mean no hot spots on the bottom of the pan? meaning no niter formation as long as below 190 f, correct? Seems like a great way to go. Please share your experience. I'm intrigued by induction.

I am not an expert on induction elements yet. So far I have just used them to boil water for tests, but I will share my experience once I start boiling sap and finishing syrup. My brother in law boils and finishes on induction. Induction stoves create an electric current that goes through the entire pot. This stops the pot from developing hot spots which will help prevent burning or scorching of the sap. The induction element is more efficient than gas or regular electric ranges. I wonder if they would out perform a propane gas turkey fryer?

Adding boiling sap as the pre heated sap, should really help with the efficiency of my evaporator.

[Sinoed09]

I find your posts fascinating and mostly because they are so detailed and precise - completely my opposite. I ran a line yesterday through waist deep snow just picking a feasible path - using twine never occurred to me and scraping through bushes seems to be a thing. I tapped a glorious maple on the escarpment ridge above my house, not because of size and estimated yield but because it reminded me of the tree I tapped with my mom when I was a kid as an experiment. I’m building a cinder arch around a commercial stainless sink - because it was cheap at a local auction.

I guess my only point is that it seems like you’ve thought of everything except maybe yourself. I stood on the escarpment, tapping my wonderful old maple with a slight breeze while looking out over the bay and thought about how lucky I was. With such precise plans and six minute timing I think its easy to get really wrapped up (and maybe that really makes you tick?) but don’t forget to enjoy the experience along the way.

All the best of luck when the sap starts running - I’m interested in hearing if you truly ended up thinking of everything. 😊

[Swingpure]

I find your posts fascinating and mostly because they are so detailed and precise - completely my opposite. I ran a line yesterday through waist deep snow just picking a feasible path - using twine never occurred to me and scraping through bushes seems to be a thing. I tapped a glorious maple on the escarpment ridge above my house, not because of size and estimated yield but because it reminded me of the tree I tapped with my mom when I was a kid as an experiment. I’m building a cinder arch around a commercial stainless sink - because it was cheap at a local auction.

I guess my only point is that it seems like you’ve thought of everything except maybe yourself. I stood on the escarpment, tapping my wonderful old maple with a slight breeze while looking out over the bay and thought about how lucky I was. With such precise plans and six minute timing I think its easy to get really wrapped up (and maybe that really makes you tick?) but don’t forget to enjoy the experience along the way.

All the best of luck when the sap starts running - I’m interested in hearing if you truly ended up thinking of everything. 😊

Lol

There are so many things I do not know. I have prepared myself the best I can, but I also know that my plans will go out the window, as soon as I start. During my four test boils I learnt a few lessons, which hopefully will help me a little.

Thanks for the advice on enjoying the moment. I live on a lake and almost everyday, I pause and let the power of awe flow inside me. When I ran the Phoenix Rock and Roll marathon when I was 59, I made sure I enjoyed it and would enjoy the music anytime I ran by a band.

I am a planner, but having worked on the railroad and dealt with many disruptions, I know plans go out the window and you just adjust and make a new one. I have already told myself to be prepared for mistakes and accept them as a learning experience, as long as I do not do them twice.

Your childhood memory with your Mom is priceless. I have a number of priceless memories with my parents, but none are maple syrup related. I have never been to a sugar house, never seen a tree actually tapped, so as I do each of these things, they will be special. I cannot tell you how forward I am looking towards drilling my first tap hole and hanging my first bucket and seeing the first drop of sap drop into the bucket.

Life I take how it comes, but a project, I do plan thoroughly. As my Dad used to say, if you are going to do a job, do it right.

[Wannabe]

The last time I posted my plan was back in July and a lot of things have changed, with the RO being a big part of it.

Here is my plan. I have 9 buckets in my yard and 27 buckets about 5 minutes away. I have three collection barrels on my property. One that has 3 lines and 28 taps (13/11/4) feeding it, another that has two lines 24 taps (13/11) and a third barrel that has three lines 23 taps (13/6/4).

My goal is to process up to 120 gallons of raw sap, 60 gallons of concentrated sap each day, if available.

I would start the day off at 6:30 am, collect the sap from the 9 buckets and put them into my sap barrel for the RO. I would then pump out one of the collection barrels into 5 gallon pails and dump them into the RO sap barrel.



Hopefully your sap isn't froze up hard in the morning..

[Swingpure]

Hopefully your sap isn't froze up hard in the morning..

Hopefully not. I hoped there would be a little ice in the buckets, that I could take out. If I find collection is difficult in the morning, I will collect late afternoon and store the sap in five gallon pails overnight.

I need to run the RO for three hours before I start boiling, that is a constant, if I have to use the concentrate as soon as possible. Originally I was going to start it overnight but was advised the longer it site the more bacteria that gets into it and it creates darker syrup.

[berkshires]

My goal is to process up to 120 gallons of raw sap, 60 gallons of concentrated sap each day, if available.

This sounds feasible. One question: 120 gallons of raw sap should produce somewhere in the vicinity of three gallons of finished syrup. What is your plan on how to get the nearup out of the front pan and into your finishing pot? Will you just keep adding to the front pan, keeping it below syrup, all day? That is possible, but has two downsides. 1 - The pan will get quite deep by the end of a big day. This means it's likely to overflow as you approach syrup (as it gets viscous it really foams up a lot, and a six inch pan is pretty shallow for a syrup pan), and deep also means less efficient evaporation. And downside 2 - darker syrup, as those sugar molecules continue to cook for extra hours.

The other option is to somehow remove some or all of the nearup over the course of the day. There are a number of ways you could accomplish this, from scooping out most of the nearup as it gets close to density and backfilling from pan two, to taking the syrup pan (pan 1) off the fire - pouring it all into your finishing pot, filling it with sap straight from the preheater, shifting all the pans up one slot, and making your old pan #1 into your new pan #5. Downside of this is it involves moving lots of pans on your arch while it's going. Not sure I'd want to do that.

Just curious to hear what your plan is.

GO

[Swingpure]

This sounds feasible. One question: 120 gallons of raw sap should produce somewhere in the vicinity of three gallons of finished syrup. What is your plan on how to get the nearup out of the front pan and into your finishing pot? Will you just keep adding to the front pan, keeping it below syrup, all day? That is possible, but has two downsides. 1 - The pan will get quite deep by the end of a big day. This means it's likely to overflow as you approach syrup (as it gets viscous it really foams up a lot, and a six inch pan is pretty shallow for a syrup pan), and deep also means less efficient evaporation. And downside 2 - darker syrup, as those sugar molecules continue to cook for extra hours.

The other option is to somehow remove some or all of the nearup over the course of the day. There are a number of ways you could accomplish this, from scooping out most of the nearup as it gets close to density and backfilling from pan two, to taking the syrup pan (pan 1) off the fire - pouring it all into your finishing pot, filling it with sap straight from the preheater, shifting all the pans up one slot, and making your old pan #1 into your new pan #5. Downside of this is it involves moving lots of pans on your arch while it's going. Not sure I'd want to do that.

Just curious to hear what your plan is.

GO

Thanks this is some of the unknowns for me.

My plan was, I felt my first few boils I would not have 120 gallons, giving me the opportunity to see how the syrup worked out. I do want a lighter amber coloured syrup if I can. If it boiled too long and turned dark, I had two different plans. The first was to make two batches in one boil, or as you suggested, start taking some out of pan 1 into the finish pot after three or four hours.

In making two batches, after I had put 30 gallons of concentrate into the pans, I would start consolidating them into one pan, backfilling the empty ones will sap for the second batch.

[Swingpure]

My finishing pot, which will go on an induction element to finish, holds 4 gallons. If I put 3 gallons of near up in it to finish, will the pot handle the boiling or am I guaranteed to overflow the pot?

Can you use defoamer when finishing to keep the foam from boiling over?

Thanks

Gary

[lulugrein]

It should be fine as volume will continue to go down as it gets to syrup. Someone has to be keeping an eye on it though, ALL THE TIME. The size of the pot will not matter if it starts boiling over.

[DRoseum]

Boiling a deep stock pot is slower and less efficient than a flatter pan. Looks like its induction based so not really an option to use one of your steam pans instead. Just keep a close eye on it as it approaches final syrup. A foam/boil over can occur. Be prepared to remove heat quickly. A few drops of sunflower oil can be helpful in those situations as well.

[DrTimPerkins]

Yes, it is fine to use defoamer throughout the entire process. Keep some handy next to the boiling pot. Keep the heat on low-moderate once it starts boiling. No need to have it running really high and hot. DO NOT WALK AWAY from the boiling pot. Density changes really quickly when it gets close to syrup.

[Swingpure]

Thanks for the tips, I will watch the finishing pot like a hawk.

Our season starts in earnest this Wednesday, with maybe the first boil on Thursday, so we will see if all my plans and preparations will pay off.

Some sap is dripping today and more will tomorrow, but Wednesday it should really flow. I have been making some little changes to the plan as we get closer such as using the bed of my truck to haul, the pails of sap from my remote sugar bush, instead of the ATV and trailer. I will still use the ATV and trailer to haul the sap in my yard to the RO area. One thing for next year is to get a 300 gallon +/- larger container for the back of the truck

Although my plan is to collect the sap in the morning while the RO is producing a starting supply for the evaporator, I may try and get it in the afternoon after boiling, if there is time. I may have to wake up earlier to start the RO if that is the case.

[Swingpure]

I made a video of my cinder block arch evaporator today, a day or two before making my first real boil. It shows all of the things I refined over my four test boils and shows where my induction elements will be located.

It literally just came out of winter storage, so there are some bricks to adjust and a final cleaning of the pans.

It will not win an Oscar for Best Short Documentary, but it does show the little features I added, many from tips from people on this forum.

The sap will start running soon today, but I don’t think I will collect enough to boil tomorrow, but we will see, but for sure I will be boiling on Thursday. Today and likely tomorrow I will be doing every little thing I can think of to be ready for the boil and finishing of the syrup Thursday and maybe bottling.

https://youtu.be/RvkDWWVprMo

[Big_Eddy]

One thing for next year is to get a 300 gallon +/- larger container for the back of the truck
.

I don’t know what truck you have, but 300 gallons of sap will exceed the payload of most personal trucks.
And 150 gallons of sap sloshing around in a 300 gallon tank can get exciting!
A 200 gallon tank might be more suitable.

Evenings are typically a better time for the daily sap collecting. Often times before noon, yesterday’s sap that was left overnight is solid, and new sap is just beginning to flow so you end up having to go back later.

[berkshires]

I made a video of my cinder block arch evaporator today, a day or two before making my first real boil. It shows all of the things I refined over my four test boils and shows where my induction elements will be located.

It literally just came out of winter storage, so there are some bricks to adjust and a final cleaning of the pans.

It will not win an Oscar for Best Short Documentary, but it does show the little features I added, many from tips from people on this forum.

The sap will start running soon today, but I don’t think I will collect enough to boil tomorrow, but we will see, but for sure I will be boiling on Thursday. Today and likely tomorrow I will be doing every little thing I can think of to be ready for the boil and finishing of the syrup Thursday and maybe bottling.

https://youtu.be/RvkDWWVprMo

Your setup looks great! Good luck tomorrow!

Gabe

[Big_Eddy]

to be ready for the boil and finishing of the syrup Thursday and maybe bottling.

https://youtu.be/RvkDWWVprMo

One more piece of advice.
Boiling, finishing and bottling are separate activities best undertaken on separate days.

If it’s not clear to you why, just search terms like “disaster” , “horrible”, “ruined”, “catastrophe, calamity, considerable setback” or similar on this forum. You will get numerous hits.

[Swingpure]

One more piece of advice.
Boiling, finishing and bottling are separate activities best undertaken on separate days.

If it’s not clear to you why, just search terms like “disaster” , “horrible”, “ruined”, “catastrophe, calamity, considerable setback” or similar on this forum. You will get numerous hits.

Lol, Thanks.

Lots to learn. After sending a video of my sap running in the lines to a friend, I discovered what I thought was bubbles of sap, were actually bubbles of air. I have air leaks to fix tomorrow.

I will boil Thursday for sure, especially since my RO is temporarily down for the count, before it even got into the game.

[Z/MAN]

I agree with Big_Eddy. After collecting. RO'ing and boiling you are more than likely going to be a little overwhelmed at all the work and time involved. I finish, filter and bottle when I have time. Usually on a day when the sap is not running, and you have some extra time on your hands. I have been following your plans all winter and I am super impressed with your attention to detail. I hope all your plans work out in the manner you expect but don't be surprised if there are a lot of bugs to be worked out. Also, as others have said DON'T LEAVE THOSE PANS!

[Swingpure]

I agree with Big_Eddy. After collecting. RO'ing and boiling you are more than likely going to be a little overwhelmed at all the work and time involved. I finish, filter and bottle when I have time. Usually on a day when the sap is not running, and you have some extra time on your hands. I have been following your plans all winter and I am super impressed with your attention to detail. I hope all your plans work out in the manner you expect but don't be surprised if there are a lot of bugs to be worked out. Also, as others have said DON'T LEAVE THOSE PANS!

Thanks.

I have prepared the best I can, but lots to learn.

I thought these bubbles were bubbles of sap and I am thinking it is really flowing! Tomorrow is line check day. It was late in the day, so it was not flowing as fast as it was.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/034fCqcwMqa3P4z6GDs-G7dHg

https://share.icloud.com/photos/00dFEWX-E8xIz0akdFlrVZ5oQ

[Swingpure]

Today was my first boil. Sap flow is still slow, but I had 45 gallons to boil and that was great for my first time ever.

Overall my plan went great with the induction elements preheating the sap. They kept up for the most part delivering boiling sap to the evaporator. I boiled the 45 gallons and came up with some nice nearup to finish. I boiled it until it was 216.5° and took it off the fire.

There were challenges along the way, which were outside the plan. An outdoor plug died, which just meant getting a longer extension cord.

The only bad thing was the ceramic blanket I was using as a gasket around the pans. I bought the pans second hand and they had a burnt outer coating to them. I tried several times to get as much of it off the pans. Today after they got hot, the gasket material stuck to the pans. It made it difficult to lift them out and some of the gasket material almost went into the boiling sap. Needless to say I will boil next time with it.

Some real nice things were the welder’s gloves that were suggested to me on another thread. They were terrific for adding the wood and lifting the pans.

I also really liked a large mesh colander that sat on the five gallon pails and helped filter out any debris in the sap.

The long neck thermometer was handy to monitor the temperature in the final pan, although near the end I used a digital temperature probe, to nail the exact temperature down.

I also liked a 37 gallon container that I added a rain spout to. I poured my raw sap into it and then filled my pots from it. This will be my concentrate container when I get the RO working.

I had hoped my fifth pan would boil, but it didn’t, so I used it as a preheat sap pan. I had put a baffle in to help with that, but I think I will remove it for the next boil.

The plywood on the ceiling worked perfectly there were zero drips. Today was a calm day, but any wind that came up, quickly cleared the steam.

I tasted the nearup and it tasted great! It was a lot of work and I never sat for 6 hours.

https://youtu.be/D7uGIDOKGYk

https://share.icloud.com/photos/03eiY-h90QdfNwAXPRsYHww2g

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0d7bzURDuABKzKmIOFFvUsWNA

https://share.icloud.com/photos/053kHV9LMl6hyNv0XcQv3EQCQ

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0f6PxBdeDWoSdzKdR2bb-H3mw

[Someclown]

Hey Gary, I'm not sure what size the wood in the wheelbarrow is or if you are splitting it smaller before stoking the fire but if you are not doing it already try splitting it smaller and firing more often for your next boil and see if that improves your boil, about 2-3" ,wrist size
I know it sounds odd but it does help as it takes more energy and time to get bigger pieces to burn.
Looks good for your first time. Always a good feelingi to have success after all the time and effort you put into something and have good end results. Things will definitely not always go as you plan but if you are able to adjust as things come up you are going to do good.
Hope you finished your nearup this morning and had pancakes for breakfast

[berkshires]

Congrats Swingpure! Glad to hear all your plans have come to fruition!

GO

[Wannabe]

Hey Gary, I'm not sure what size the wood in the wheelbarrow is or if you are splitting it smaller before stoking the fire but if you are not doing it already try splitting it smaller and firing more often for your next boil and see if that improves your boil, about 2-3" ,wrist size
I know it sounds odd but it does help as it takes more energy and time to get bigger pieces to burn.
Looks good for your first time. Always a good feelingi to have success after all the time and effort you put into something and have good end results. Things will definitely not always go as you plan but if you are able to adjust as things come up you are going to do good.
Hope you finished your nearup this morning and had pancakes for breakfast

Yep, and make sure the fire has plenty of draft underneath it(natural is fine). That sap should be boiling violently with your setup. Looking good and keep after it!

[Swingpure]

There are a lot of pieces of wood that are smaller than what was in the wheel barrow. But thanks for the observation and advice. Three of the pans boil violently, the fourth boils, but not quite as hard, the fifth pan not so much. The first boil I used some of my lowest btu wood (poplar) but eventually I will get to the maple and white birch.

Today I finished, yesterday’s boil. It all went well. Using the cup with the hydrotherm is messy. Besides the hydrotherm, I used two different thermometers, the old spoon sheathing trick and a refractometer. I think I am pretty close to my target of 66.9% Brix.

In the picture you can see the table with all of the things I had to help, including a thermos with hot water to preheat the hydrotherm.

I will bottle it this weekend.

I used my vacuum filter I made to filter it. I did wet the filters and pour it into the vacuum filter straight from the finishing pot as soon as I reached my target Brix.

The vacuum filter had two fails but ultimately did the job 100%. One of the prefilters came loose, but the other two prefilters and two primary filters stayed in place and caught all of the sugar sand. The other fail was the top pot is held down by bungee cords. On my test run it stayed in place, but this time it shifted, but did not lose it’s vacuum and the 5 quarts of syrup got sucked down quickly. So ultimately it was a success.

In the off season, as soon as I am confident I have a drill bit to go through the stainless steel, I will add the over center clamps, that I have already purchased.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/00aVNTfHY5oOn4-wY5Ud9_Cig

https://share.icloud.com/photos/05f6BIH-XPxSnX3BDu5nJbMyQ

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0cdzp4yYhhVtl-UoxT-2CdoeA

[Z/MAN]

Glad to see you finally got your pans wet. I agree on splitting the wood a lot smaller. Also take the lids off the pots, let that steam add to your evaporation rate. Is there an opening under your door for the draft to get under your grate. I think that unit should be boiling a lot harder than it appears. Have fun!!!!

[Swingpure]

Glad to see you finally got your pans wet. I agree on splitting the wood a lot smaller. Also take the lids off the pots, let that steam add to your evaporation rate. Is there an opening under your door for the draft to get under your grate. I think that unit should be boiling a lot harder than it appears. Have fun!!!!

Thanks

There is about a four to five inch opening below the grate. The grate sits on a double layer of bricks. Most of the time the first three are boiling very hard.

When I split next year’s wood, I will go even smaller, although I have a great fire under the pans.

[Swingpure]

I boiled again today, 45 gallons and produced a gallon+ of nearup. It looks and tastes good, I will finish it tomorrow and likely bottle it and my previous boil tomorrow.

If the colour and taste is the same, is it wrong to put the two batches together to bottle?

The big thing today is my evaporator ROARED for the first time today and did it a few times, sometimes for awhile. When it first did it, I thought it was good as my fifth pan started boiling, then I noticed my fourth pan stopped boiling, then my third was affected and so were the seconded and first pans. I realized the heat was racing out the stovepipe.

It would happen after I pushed the wood in the firebox back to the end and added new wood. With the door open it increased the draft and away it would start roaring. It has never done that before. My buddy showed up one time that it happened. He said there was too much draft. I almost totally blocked the opening, but it still roared away for awhile.

I did have some baffles at the end of the evaporator, if that is the correct term, to slow the air flow and to add more heat around the fifth pan, but when that did not seem to work on the first boil, I removed its. I will add it back.

It likely added another hour to my boil due to the heat loss.

I removed all of the ceramic blanket gasket material around the pans, because last boil it stuck to the pans and gave me grief. A little smoke sneaked past the odd pan, but not too bad.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/06b5kI__jMMrWDEuKL9rejWBg

[Swingpure]

My very first bottle and jar of syrup. I am extremely pleased with the colour, clarity, viscosity and especially the taste.

Having said all that, my bottling was a bit of a cluster. The tall bottling pot, did not fit under the range hood and I had to move out to the side burner on the BBQ to heat it to 180-190. The microwave which would have been above the stove was not easily accessible to I heated the bottles on baking sheets on the BBQ. Worst of all with the small quantity, I had to tip the pot fairly soon in the process so that leaves of the syrup would reach the inlet of the ball valve. As soon as you tip it, you take it off the heat.

I am thinking of going to a smaller pot and ladling it into the bottles/jars.

I am open to any better suggestions.

Oh, did I say I was extremely pleased with the results.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0191klYmFtEzXBnwmud0HxMzw

[berkshires]

Looks great! Nice and clear. Congrats! Everyone has their own method of bottling. You just have to find what works for you.

Gabe

[maple flats]

I have yet to tap a tree or boil an ounce of sap, but I have the bug bad. I have read many, many articles on it, watched many you tube videos and have chatted up local syrup makers. I have been posting about my cinder block evaporator build and almost have it dialed in after it’s third test. Still some tweaks to do.

This is my plan after hauling down the sap from the trees. I will have the ability to store about 120 gallons of sap. Right now I will be tapping 36 trees, that may go up. For the most part I will be collecting the sap and boiling.

I will filter the raw sap into the storage containers. (2 45 gallon covered drums and 5 gallon pails. All food grade.

The sap will be stored outdoors, covered in snow banks. When I get 60 gallons stored, or after two days being stored, I will start boiling.

I will boil it to close to syrup, but stop before it does. I will pour it, while it is still hot, through a wet filter into a pail. I will keep that pail in a snowbank until I am ready to finish it.

I received my finishing pot today, it is magnetic stainless steel and I will heat the nearup on an induction range. I will test it with a candy thermometer, hydrotherm and a refractometer. My goal is to get it to between 67 and 67.5 Brix. When it is done, I will filter it once more into a pail and store it in a snowbank until I am ready to bottle it. (I will use the same pot and induction range to boil some sap, while I am evaporating.)

On September 8th, I pick up a brew kettle with a ball valve and thermometer. When it comes time for bottling, will slowly reheat the syrup while stirring and when it reaches between 185 and 190 degrees, I will fill preheat jars and bottles, cap them and then turn them upside down for five seconds. Then I am done, other than cleaning up.


Is there any major mistakes to my plan?

22483
22484
One issue as I see it is that every time you re-heat the syrup it gets darker. Thus if you prefer dark as most of my customers do, you have a good plan, but if you prefer Amber, as I do, the plan may not be for you.

[Swingpure]

Looks great! Nice and clear. Congrats! Everyone has their own method of bottling. You just have to find what works for you.

Gabe

I watched a few videos and I am just going to ladle it in, using a funnel. I would have much better control of the heat and the volume going into jars and I can fit a smaller pot under the hood range and have the microwave above to heat the bottles.

I will hang onto the large pot with the ball valve and temperature gauge for next year in case I get a large pan and I am dealing with larger volumes.

[Swingpure]

The one surprise for me is the time it takes for clean up after a boil. Washing out the 5 gallon pails that had sap in it, putting away the hose and the extension cords, cleaning the three pots on the induction elements, putting away the induction elements, cleaning the five steam pans, cleaning out the ashes, cleaning the tools and additional pots, etc. It adds a couple of hours to the day.

Not complaining, it was just something I had not thought of in my plan.

[Sugar Bear]

Not complaining, it was just something I had not thought of in my plan.

Wowa! You mean to tell me you had an unplanned event occur in your first experience maple sugaring????

I was beginning to think you had every single drop of sap covered and caught on webcam video!

Glad your having fun.

I am not a big fan of the cleaning up part. But its cleanup time for the season for me and was late for dinner tonight and almost got sent back to the woods without dinner.

[Pdiamond]

Good for you Gary. I am glad things are working okay for you. Hope you are learning as you go along.

[Swingpure]

I boiled 85 gallons of sap today. My cinder block evaporator worked the best it ever has. I put the “baffle back in and right away it started really boiling well and at one point all five pans were boiling. My evaporation rate changed from 9 gph to 11.5 gph. On the previous boils, my three pots on the induction ranges could keep up, but today on many occasions I had to add unheated sap to keep up.

I made two batches in the one boil, without lifting any pans between boils. It worked well and was easy to do.

I will finish the two batches tomorrow.

[berkshires]

That's great! I'm curious, how did you make two batches without lifting pans? What procedure did you land on?

GO

[Swingpure]

That's great! I'm curious, how did you make two batches without lifting pans? What procedure did you land on?

GO

I have to correct myself, I did lift the final pan (1) to empty the nearup into a pot.

Some of my sap was in a bin and some in pails. I identified two groups of 43 gallons, and ran the first 43 gallons through as normal. When I got to the next 43 gallons. I never mixed it with the first 43, other than the little bit left in a pan left after I scooped most of the pan out.

I would empty pan 5 into 4 scooping out as much as I could and then fill pan 5 with the sap from the second 43 gallons. I carried this on to pan 1. I let pan 1 boil itself until the temperature reached 217 and then drained it all into a pot.

Meanwhile I kept transferring sap from pan to pan, stopping at pan 2. Once pan 1 was empty, I stuck a little bit of raw sap in the bottom so I could put it back on the heat, then scooped much of pan 2 into pan 1 and then carried on as normal.

Hopefully that makes sense.

[berkshires]

I think so. Though it sounds like you would wind up with a bit of a reverse gradient if each time you empty a pan further down the line you fill it with raw sap. I'd you were to fill each one with the sap from the pan right behind it, you could keep the gradient up (at the expense of a lot more scooping).

What do you do when you run out of sap the second time?

GO

[Swingpure]

I think so. Though it sounds like you would wind up with a bit of a reverse gradient if each time you empty a pan further down the line you fill it with raw sap. I'd you were to fill each one with the sap from the pan right behind it, you could keep the gradient up (at the expense of a lot more scooping).

What do you do when you run out of sap the second time?

GO

I guess I did not explain it well enough. The only time I used raw sap was just enough in pan 1, to throw it back on the heat. Other than that I backfilled everything normally.

Normal for me is pan 2 to 1, 3 to 2, 4 to 3, 5 to 4. Then I dump boiling sap into 5.

What I did for the first 43 gallons, as I came to the end of the 43 gallons, is scoop all of it I could, out of 5 into 4, then 4 into 3, 3 into 2, 2 into 1. I then boiled 1 down to the correct temp and dumped it into a pot.

As each pan was scooped out almost empty into the next one, it was backfilled by the second 43 gallon sap. So when the second 43 gallon sap was backfilled into pan 2, the it was filled by pan 3, which was filled by pan 4, which was filled by pan 5.

[Swingpure]

That's great! I'm curious, how did you make two batches without lifting pans? What procedure did you land on?

GO

I made 2 batches again today out of one boil and did it slightly different and I will try and explain it better.

I do everything normal and when the designated volume has reached pan, I do not add anymore sap from the other pans to pan 1. Pan 2 now becomes the end pan.

When pan 1 has reached the desired temperature, I lift it up and pour into a pot.

This is what I did different this time.

I brought the now empty pan close to pan 2, and then scooped a bunch of sap from pan 2 into Pan 1, then put pan 1 back in it’s spot.

Worked like a charm.

[Sinoed09]

Swingpure - After all the planning and scheming and organizing.. how do you like sugaring? ��

[Swingpure]

Swingpure - After all the planning and scheming and organizing.. how do you like sugaring? ��

Thanks for asking.

Except for the smoke inhalation issue, I love it.

I like the tapping, collection, boiling, finishing and bottling. I finally had a real taste of the syrup I made and it was the best maple syrup I have ever tasted. You certainly do not do this to save money on buying maple syrup.

Because of all of the tips, (and all of the patience in answering my many, many questions) I was well prepared and there has been no real surprises, other than the length of the clean up time. Some of that is self imposed. I have had no disasters.

My first three boils, smoke was not an issue, but the last two days the wind direction was different and it hovered around badly in my shelter. I am up right now because I woke up coughing. I am going to remove more walls from my shelter, I have just ordered some better masks and I am going to trim my beard tight, for a better fit with the masks.

Long term I am looking at buying a more professional 15-18 gph evaporator, and building a more permanent modest sugar shack, with a cupola. If I stick with the cinder block evaporator, definitely I will have a taller roof on the shelter and have it more open air, with maybe greater roof coverage.

I have learned a few lessons on the way, which I will apply next year, such as I think I unintentionally tapped too high up on some of the trees on my lines. I also learned not to push the coals too far back in the evaporator and block the draft on the ramp.

The vacuum filter I made, after following most of 4walls design, has worked excellently, it filters very well and filters in no time at all. My syrup is super clear, with no sediment in the bottles. I do have to add the over center clamps to it for next year.

Unfortunately the brand new Aquatec pump I purchased for my RO never worked and I am still trying to get Amazon to replace it or refund me. I was well past the 30 day return guarantee, but they said they would do something for me, but while I wait, I am not ROing, but I think it will work great once I get the pump. Sap flow has been slow, so I have been able to keep up and usually collect one day and boil the next. I also usually finish and bottle on the days I collect the sap.

I am really pleased with the use of the three induction elements for pre heating the sap to a boil and for finishing and especially bottling.

Next year I likely will not have any pail drops on my property, the trees have not produced well as of yet, but there is still time. I likely will try and add a few more trees to the lines. I really like the lines. I could see sometime adding a vacuum pump to some of them.

So it has been a positive experience. It is a lot of work, but I do not mind that. I will be at it again next year. It is just me doing all of the work, so I will look for ways to become even more efficient. I think buying the evaporator will be one of them.

[Sugarmaker]

Swingpure,
Congratulations on your first maple season!
Regards,
Chris

[Swingpure]

I will do my fifth boil tomorrow.

One thing I noticed is that often I get my best boiling, is when the wood inside had burnt down and there were more coals than whole pieces of wood.

I also saw a video when someone was loading their “real” evaporator, they just put new wood on top of the same pile. What I have been doing is to push back the wood in the front, then add a pile of fresh wood and when that has burnt down, I push that back and add more wood. Prior to adding the new wood is when I get the best boil. I almost don’t want to add new wood at the time, but I am driven by the “rule” to add fresh wood every 6/7 minutes or so.

Tomorrow I will just try and have the one pile, not push it back, and only add wood when there is room between the pile and the bottom of the pans.

I will see how that works and if does not work well, I will end up,pushing the pile back like normal. I did have the one incident where I pushed it back so far, I blocked the draft.

Or…. When I open the door, I just push the top logs back and put the fresh logs on top of the burning, coal bottom layer up front.

We will see how it works and I should have my answer by noon.

[Sugar Bear]

New wood generates incomplete combustion. No matter how dry it is or we think it is we have moisture in our wood and that is the leading cause of incomplete combustion.

Incomplete combustion carries H2O with it and knocks down the temperature generated by what combustion there is.

Moisture on either side of the pans is a coolant.

It keeps our engines from cracking/warping to oblivion when we run it through them.

But lots of factors determine how long it takes wood to reach complete combustion in or on a fire. The major ones are ...

1) How much moisture is in the wood.

2) How dense/hard the wood is.

3) The actual temperature of the core of the wood itself. 5 degree wood is slower then 60 degree wood.

4) The chemistry of the wood.

5) And of course air supply which is assumed to be appropriate quantity. No fires in a vacuum.

Your boil rate is the fastest when compete combustion is taking place off your fuel source. That occurs when all moisture is out of it.

Moisture in our wood, any amount, and there is always at least some, even after kiln drying wood, is the major factor in generating incomplete combustion.

Even so ... kiln dried firewood and the extra cost of it has become popular for some although difficult to absorb into the cost of making maple syrup.

Dry your wood as well as you can. The more the better.

[Swingpure]

New wood generates incomplete combustion. No matter how dry it is or we think it is we have moisture in our wood and that is the leading cause of incomplete combustion.

…..

Dry your wood as well as you can. The more the better.

Thanks, that helps me understand things better of why when I add fresh wood into the firebox, why the heat drops. Temperatures last night dropped to -15° C (+5° F) so the actual temperature of the wood will be cold when I start my boil this morning. It likely will be -7 (+19) when I start my boil this morning.

There is no doubt my wood could be more well seasoned. The idea of making Maple Syrup came to me in July and at that point I started splitting wood for the evaporator. Some of the wood had been dropped, prior to July, but none of it was near as well seasoned, as what I would put in the house (2 years seasoned). I did mix in a face cord and a half of, 2 seasoned wood, with the other wood.

I have already split the wood for next years evaporator, I did that last fall, so next year’s wood will be a year and half old. I do have to resplit that wood to be more wrist sized.

[wobbletop]

I always thought it was just the new wood physically blocking the radiant heat from the coals until the new wood catches fire.

[Someclown]

New wood generates incomplete combustion. No matter how dry it is or we think it is we have moisture in our wood and that is the leading cause of incomplete combustion.

Incomplete combustion carries H2O with it and knocks down the temperature generated by what combustion there is.

Moisture on either side of the pans is a coolant.

It keeps our engines from cracking/warping to oblivion when we run it through them.

But lots of factors determine how long it takes wood to reach complete combustion in or on a fire. The major ones are ...

1) How much moisture is in the wood.

2) How dense/hard the wood is.

3) The actual temperature of the core of the wood itself. 5 degree wood is slower then 60 degree wood.

4) The chemistry of the wood.

5) And of course air supply which is assumed to be appropriate quantity. No fires in a vacuum.

Your boil rate is the fastest when compete combustion is taking place off your fuel source. That occurs when all moisture is out of it.

Moisture in our wood, any amount, and there is always at least some, even after kiln drying wood, is the major factor in generating incomplete combustion.

Even so ... kiln dried firewood and the extra cost of it has become popular for some although difficult to absorb into the cost of making maple syrup.

Dry your wood as well as you can. The more the better.

Couldn't of said it better myself
Fresh wood going into a fire takes the energy of the already burning wood and coal to make it burn which in turn is absorbing the heat until it gets to the same combustion temps. Also unseasoned wood will cause more coaling than seasoned wood and not burn as hot as fully seasoned wood. Properly covered and seasoned wood will have a moisture content of around 20 percent or less depending on the relative humidity it's stored in.
Same heat loss happens in my evaporator for about a minute until the fresh load gets burning, but not drastic enough to stop the vigorous boil unless I miss the reload time, my wood is two years seasoned and I use nothing bigger than 3 inch splits.and branches from firewood cuts.

Swingpure, If you find you have no room for wood do to coals you may need more air under your fire to complete the combustion and burn the coals down, be it natural or forced, although if you force air you need to be somewhat sealed or smoke and sparks will come out any gaps and you already experienced the smoke inhalation. It doesnt need to be high pressure for AUF. If I have my AUF on I have minimal to no coaling and at the end of my boiling I keep the blower going for half hour while I clean up which reduces the remaining coals to nothing but ash and a cooled down evaporator, then I can just roll my evaporator back into the shed.

[Sugar Bear]

New wood does block the heat coming off the coals and drive it up the stack without hitting pans.

The bottom line here is that new wood does take time to reach full combustion. However even after the wood is fully enflamed you won't get your best boil rate because even though it is fully enflamed it is not yet fully combusting. Moisture among other things is still being release from the combustion and this keeps temperatures low in perspective to what they will be at full combustion.

Coals are combusting fully. That is why we get great boil rates off of coals. Not a tad of moisture left in the combustion to cool things down.

While wood is cheap it is very inefficient for the boiling process. There is a lot of startup combustion that is inefficient.

This is one of the reasons some sugar makers use oil or gas nowadays. No or much less combustion startup costs.

Put a match to room full of gas and Whamo! Full combustion.

Put a match to room full of wood and you "may" have a big fire in a while! But chances are you could go have a cup of coffee before you could warm your hands up.

But oil and gas sure is expensive nowadays.

But coals won't last too long so we refuel.

So we manage the cycle as efficiently as we can with wood.

[Swingpure]

If I find that affording a new evaporator is cost prohibitive, another route is to go to a 2x5’ pan that sits on top of the cinder blocks with some gasket material on the top of the cinder blocks to prevent smoke from getting by, and making a better door, where once again there is no smoke leakage.

[Super Sapper]

I would let the coals burn down more and add less wood each time. A buildup of coals restricts your air flow and will reduce the heat to the pans. I have noticed in the past that if I buildup any coals that the boil rate will slow down. Once the coals burn down you can see the difference. Timing of loading wood will be different for each evaporator depending on how much you load, type of wood and amount of combustion air.

[Sugar Bear]

I would let the coals burn down more and add less wood each time. A buildup of coals restricts your air flow and will reduce the heat to the pans. I have noticed in the past that if I buildup any coals that the boil rate will slow down. Once the coals burn down you can see the difference. Timing of loading wood will be different for each evaporator depending on how much you load, type of wood and amount of combustion air.

Your not quite thinking it through enough. But that is commonplace in our world. I frequently do it myself. So don't feel I am picking on you. Just pointing out our general trend.

A build up of coal does not restrict air flow. Coals are highly carbon loaded and love air and suck it in, and forms coke which is used to smelt metals at over a thousand degrees.

While they can be short lived with wood, they are a heat makers best friend and have changed our world more then any single material in our history. Even more then Ben Franklins incident with a kite. Make not a single mistake for a single second about that. Without this phenomenon we would still be riding donkey carts made of wood and taping trees with flint knives and hand carved wooden spouts.

Ashes on the other hand, restrict airflow. Pure ashes have no carbon or little left in them and what they consist of is still a bit of a mystery to science. Although most agree they consist of some form of the calcium's. It has no combustible energy within it.

Ideally, that is why we want a ash pit under the air grid and the coals above the air grid in any chamber where our desire is to offshoot energy in the form of heat.

The hot coals have the purest and most efficient form of energy release with the lowest draft rate ( less oxygen consumption ) generating the best heat transfer.

That is why COAL mining replaced wood predominantly as a heat source on our big ball.

In sugar making, the trick is when the fuel provider must decide on when to give up on coals. We don't like to think, we just like to do, so we slam more wood in the box and give up on coals.

God bless those who have noticed that perhaps we should not. It is not uncommon to learn as much from a rookie like "Swingpore" as it is to learn from ... well lets just say a "Doctor".

With that said, one of these days I am going to get off my lazy rear end and make my burn box the way it is supposed to be made such that I may spend less time listening to the coyotes howl in the darkness of the night.

Although that is a terrifically beautiful sound and rings our real home like none other.

[Swingpure]

Thanks for all of the wood loading tips. I hope to have six or more boils before the season ends, so I will experiment with when and how much I add.

Although some of my wood is wrist size, there are pieces that are not and they are typically more gnarly wood that is harder to split further. I will make sure that much more of my wood is the correct size next year.

Over the next day or two I will try and do a few things to help prevent smoke escape.

I will add sand to the two layers of cinder blocks, in the fire box area, although that is not where I seeing the majority of the smoke leaks.

I have quite a bit of carbon buildup, on the ends of the pans preventing them from having any kind of seal with the concrete blocks, so I will scrap the ends bare.

I had a ceramic blanket on the door for a better seal, but it is burning off and has left an uneven edge, preventing any kind of good seal. I will remove all of that and let flat concrete against flat concrete have the seal.

Hopefully loading the wood at better times and adding not as much wood will allow for better combustion and draft and maybe more of the smoke will be drawn out, instead of drifting up and out.

Thanks again for the tips.

[Sugar Bear]

Thanks for all of the wood loading tips. I hope to have six or more boils before the season ends, so I will experiment with when and how much I add.

Although some of my wood is wrist size, there are pieces that are not and they are typically more gnarly wood that is harder to split further. I will make sure that much more of my wood is the correct size next year.

Over the next day or two I will try and do a few things to help prevent smoke escape.

I will add sand to the two layers of cinder blocks, in the fire box area, although that is not where I seeing the majority of the smoke leaks.

I have quite a bit of carbon buildup, on the ends of the pans preventing them from having any kind of seal with the concrete blocks, so I will scrap the ends bare.

I had a ceramic blanket on the door for a better seal, but it is burning off and has left an uneven edge, preventing any kind of good seal. I will remove all of that and let flat concrete against flat concrete have the seal.

Hopefully loading the wood at better times and adding not as much wood will allow for better combustion and draft and maybe more of the smoke will be drawn out, instead of drifting up and out.

Thanks again for the tips.

My sugaring season is over so now I am the jealous one. Sap is running here again but only for a short bit and tapped holes from mid Feb have all but dried out.

You may try extending your stack. The higher it is the better it seems to draft and hold draft and continue draft. If you have a cap/screen on it take it off unless of course the fire chief requires it.

[Someclown]

Sugar bear, thanks for the great explanation
Swingpure, I believe you already know this but each individual evaporator, cooker, wood stove, person etc. is different and therefore trying different techniques is a good practice until you find what works best with the setup and environment you have. Sugar Bear has a good explanation and now you can use that info. to help figure out which firing technique works best for your situation. Nice thing about maple trader is people like that and many others that are full of different knowledge and are willing to share what they've already experienced or know from life lessons as well as all the info. anyone wants to read, but also have to keep in mind that what someone else does may not be the most efficient or best way for your setup. Just keep trying different techniques asking questions and reading , and keep track of your changes, eventually you will have it as good as you want it. Some may work good some may fail, you have proven you could adapt to changes quickly. As for sealing your pans! Maybe your going to have to do like the moonshiners and make a sludge to put around them to seal the gaps to help with the smoke for the time being without spending a bunch of money on woodstove door gasket that will fall off anyway, like mine did.
On another note, I really hope this coming weather freezing rain, snow, sleet wind doesn't do to much damage and we can get back to sapping soon. Time is starting to run short but maybe this year we will collect sap until May

[Swingpure]

Sugar bear, thanks for the great explanation
Swingpure, I believe you already know this but each individual evaporator, cooker, wood stove, person etc. is different and therefore trying different techniques is a good practice until you find what works best with the setup and environment you have. Sugar Bear has a good explanation and now you can use that info. to help figure out which firing technique works best for your situation. Nice thing about maple trader is people like that and many others that are full of different knowledge and are willing to share what they've already experienced or know from life lessons as well as all the info. anyone wants to read, but also have to keep in mind that what someone else does may not be the most efficient or best way for your setup. Just keep trying different techniques asking questions and reading , and keep track of your changes, eventually you will have it as good as you want it. Some may work good some may fail, you have proven you could adapt to changes quickly. As for sealing your pans! Maybe your going to have to do like the moonshiners and make a sludge to put around them to seal the gaps to help with the smoke for the time being without spending a bunch of money on woodstove door gasket that will fall off anyway, like mine did.
On another note, I really hope this coming weather freezing rain, snow, sleet wind doesn't do to much damage and we can get back to sapping soon. Time is starting to run short but maybe this year we will collect sap until May

Thanks I will tinker until I have it dialed in. I was just trying to add as much wood as I could, every six minutes or so, but realize that is the wrong approach. I will let the boil tell me how to proceed.

I think tomorrow the sap is going to be gushing. The long range is getting a little more concerning, because what was a lot of below freezing nights are starting to move above zero, but we will see what actually happens. I have a lot of syrup still to make.

I did add sand to the cinder blocks but just at the joints, as that is where any smoke will come out. I also added sand to the top row of individual blocks and staggered the joints.

I cleaned off all sides of the pans and remove all of the ceramic blanket material and glue from the door. I noticed a few other little things that might help. We will see again on Friday when I boil again.

[Super Sapper]

Sugar Bear, I have thought it through, obviously farther than you. I do not disagree with your thoughts on paper. Coals will restrict airflow as they fill in the grates restricting the air from coming through. Coals are smaller than wood and pack in tighter than wood until they burn up. Coal burners are setup differently and operate differently so not a good comparison.

[Big_Eddy]

I’ve found the best for my evaporator is to add wood every 7-8 mins, but it depends on the wood. Small pine might need replenishing after 5 mins. Larger maple after 10. I only fill my fire box half full and essentially replace what burned. I pull partially burned wood forward each time too. Pushing wood back is a waste. You want the heat to travel the full length of the pans, not just the back half. If coals start to build up (not good, contrary to what Sugar Bear suggests) then I either add less wood each time, switch to soft wood for a bit, or clean out the ash area to allow more air. A growing bed of coals means your wood is not burning fast enough, usually because the wood is too large, or the fire is not getting enough air.


If you are getting smoke and you have a blower, turn it down. If you don’t have a blower, you need a larger or taller chimney. With a tall and large enough stack and dry wood, there should be more than enough draft to pull air in the cracks, not leak smoke out.

[Swingpure]

I’ve found the best for my evaporator is to add wood every 7-8 mins, but it depends on the wood. Small pine might need replenishing after 5 mins. Larger maple after 10. I only fill my fire box half full and essentially replace what burned. I pull partially burned wood forward each time too. Pushing wood back is a waste. You want the heat to travel the full length of the pans, not just the back half. If coals start to build up (not good, contrary to what Sugar Bear suggests) then I either add less wood each time, switch to soft wood for a bit, or clean out the ash area to allow more air. A growing bed of coals means your wood is not burning fast enough, usually because the wood is too large, or the fire is not getting enough air.


If you are getting smoke and you have a blower, turn it down. If you don’t have a blower, you need a larger or taller chimney. With a tall and large enough stack and dry wood, there should be more than enough draft to pull air in the cracks, not leak smoke out.

I think I have been adding way too much wood, (filling it to the bottom of the pan) and I have been pushing it back, then refilling it to the bottom of the pan again. Funny it is when i don’t fill it every 6/7 minutes or so and go longer is when i get the best boil, but I guess by then the moisture is starting to leave the fresh wood. This Friday, I will only fill it half the height and leave everything up front.

By my very last boil of the year, I will have it all dialed in.

I have a six inch, 12 foot tall stack (looks higher). I think the “baffle” I put in front of it to slow the draft, I will remove again.

[Sugar Bear]

If coals start to build up (not good, contrary to what Sugar Bear suggests)



Sugar Bear is suggesting that when coals build up that is ok and you will get the most efficient thermal transfer to the bottom of the pans at this time. This portion of the combustion creates the most amount of heat in realation to the amount of oxygen consumed and draft ( BTU's along with it ) emitted up the chimney. So he gets the best boil at this time.

The reason this thread trended in this direction is because the god father of this thread stated ....

"One thing I noticed is that often I get my best boiling, is when the wood inside had burnt down and there were more coals than whole pieces of wood."

so .... why else do you think the good rookie notices that?????

The bad thing about coals is that it means ash buildup is shortly on its way and that certainly slows down the process if the design and maintenance of the arch does not effectively separate them from the coals and a air supply to the coals.

Read the above sentence at least twice.

But depending on the wood you use, density and moisture content the coals that form can last vastly different amounts of times, before ashes corrupt the thermal dynamics of the situation.

But our world nowadays is all about impatience and step on the "slop" and go faster rather than go efficiently.

Do you guys ever burn black locust in Ontario? If so be sure to dry it for at least two seasons.




[/QUOTE]

[Sugar Bear]

Sugar Bear, I have thought it through, obviously farther than you. I do not disagree with your thoughts on paper. Coals will restrict airflow as they fill in the grates restricting the air from coming through. Coals are smaller than wood and pack in tighter than wood until they burn up. Coal burners are setup differently and operate differently so not a good comparison.

Coals will not effectively restrict airflow. They will synergize with it to produce heat. If there are enough coals and enough airflow they will generate enough heat to melt most metals.

Ashes will effectively restrict airflow. Given enough of them, they will seal it off and they will extinguish any combustion that is taking place on things they cover. In turn dampening heat output.

[ecolbeck]

Coals will not restrict airflow. They will synergize with it to produce heat. If there are enough coals and enough airflow they will generate enough heat to melt most metals.

You've contradicted yourself nicely. Coals can and do restrict airflow in an evaporator by blocking the airflow through the grates. If they didn't, then the grates would melt (according to your logic).

[Sugar Bear]

You've contradicted yourself nicely. Coals can and do restrict airflow in an evaporator by blocking the airflow through the grates. If they didn't, then the grates would melt (according to your logic).

No not contradicting anything here. You are not reading carefully enough.

Yes ... enough coals coupled with appropriate air supply will melt/crack/break apart/destroy metal grates. So it is important to control the air flow to coals that are over grate so that we don't do that.

But what most sugar makers do, you and me included, is dampen the high heat generated by coals + oxygen by allowing "ashes" ( much different thing then coals ) to build up which block oxygen flow to the coals, preventing them from generating such masses amount of heat that will melt metal.

COALS ARE COALS BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL LOADED WITH POTENTIAL ENERGY. THEY ARE NOT ASHES WHICH HAVE LITTLE TO NO POTETIAL ENERGY AND ARE TERRIFIC AT BLOCKING HEAT.

Swingpore says this ....

"One thing I noticed is that often I get my best boiling, is when the wood inside had burnt down and there were more coals than whole pieces of wood."

BECAUSE he has lots of coals, a decent oxygen supply to them, and not enough ashes in and around them, to snuff down the combustion of the heat generated by them. Which by the way is generating the most efficient heat needed to generate the best boil rate, which Swingpore, an extremely observant man, is observing.

Whether Swingpore is damaging grates underneath the burn, I do not know. He might be, he might not be. He is on a home built arch like me.

[Sugar Bear]

It should also be noted here that the high combustibles in some coals are more highly staged and at the ready for combustion then others. This depends on the type of wood used to form them.

Hard woods form better coals then softwoods. Some hard woods substantially better than other hardwoods.

Moisture content of the wood from the beginning also effects the combustibles in the coals that form.

[ecolbeck]

No not contradicting anything here. You are not reading carefully enough.

Yes ... enough coals coupled with appropriate air supply will melt/crack/break apart/destroy metal grates. So it is important to control the air flow to coals that are over grate so that we don't do that.

But what most sugar makers do, you and me included, is dampen the high heat generated by coals + oxygen by allowing "ashes" ( much different thing then coals ) to build up which block oxygen flow to the coals, preventing them from generating such masses amount of heat that will melt metal.

COALS ARE COALS BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL LOADED WITH POTENTIAL ENERGY. THEY ARE NOT ASHES WHICH HAVE LITTLE TO NO POTETIAL ENERGY AND ARE TERRIFIC AT BLOCKING HEAT.

Swingpore says this ....

"One thing I noticed is that often I get my best boiling, is when the wood inside had burnt down and there were more coals than whole pieces of wood."

BECAUSE he has lots of coals, a decent oxygen supply to them, and not enough ashes in and around them, to snuff down the combustion of the heat generated by them. Which by the way is generating the most efficient heat needed to generate the best boil rate, which Swingpore, an extremely observant man, is observing.

Whether Swingpore is damaging grates underneath the burn, I do not know. He might be, he might not be. He is on a home built arch like me.


Everybody knows the difference between coals and ash. Everybody knows that the whole point of grates is that they allow the ash to filter through while retaining the coals (which then block airflow according to every sugarmaker except one). Nobody disagrees about the intense heat radiation that coals provide. However, everybody knows that flames provide more radiation. Nobody makes syrup or heats their home with wood coals alone.

[berkshires]

I think I have been adding way too much wood, (filling it to the bottom of the pan) and I have been pushing it back, then refilling it to the bottom of the pan again. Funny it is when i don’t fill it every 6/7 minutes or so and go longer is when i get the best boil, but I guess by then the moisture is starting to leave the fresh wood. This Friday, I will only fill it half the height and leave everything up front.

By my very last boil of the year, I will have it all dialed in.

I have a six inch, 12 foot tall stack (looks higher). I think the “baffle” I put in front of it to slow the draft, I will remove again.

Ignore the squabbling about coals and such. I think you have a good plan. Don't push coals back, put your new wood on top of existing wood. Preferably as far forward as you can. And if there's no room, that's because you're not ready to add new wood yet.

If you've got smoke coming out of your evaporator from all the seams, something is very wrong. With a 12' stack, it's not the draft. I think it's how you've been firing it.

Good luck,

Gabe

[Sugar Bear]

Everybody knows the difference between coals and ash. Everybody knows that the whole point of grates is that they allow the ash to filter through while retaining the coals (which then block airflow according to every sugarmaker except one). Nobody disagrees about the intense heat radiation that coals provide. However, everybody knows that flames provide more radiation. Nobody makes syrup or heats their home with wood coals alone.

https://www.ecohome.net/guides/3420/wood-combustion-how-firewood-burns-how-to-get-the-best-heat-while-being-eco-friendly/

[Sugar Bear]

Swingpore

I highly recommend you read this link and pay special attention to the stage four section as an explanation for your original observation.

https://www.ecohome.net/guides/3420/wood-combustion-how-firewood-burns-how-to-get-the-best-heat-while-being-eco-friendly/

[Swingpure]

Swingpore

I highly recommend you read this link and pay special attention to the stage four section as an explanation for your original observation.

https://www.ecohome.net/guides/3420/wood-combustion-how-firewood-burns-how-to-get-the-best-heat-while-being-eco-friendly/

Interesting article, thanks.

I will be boiling tomorrow, so I will be putting all of the advice to practice and I will see if I can find and keep the sweet spot of peak heat.

[Sugar Bear]

If the airflow in Swingpores arch is set up so that it sufficiently provides oxygen to the coals in the stage four burn, he may possibly get the hottest temperatures in his arch at that time. Stage four combustion requires at least a temperature of 950 degrees but given enough oxygen or pure oxygen exposure it will be much hotter. That would cause the best boil rates at that time if he is.

I believe if his wood is on the moist side, he is more likely to also push the hottest arch temps into the stage four burn, because the excess moisture has more adverse effect on the stage three burn.

Typically in a arch the stage three burn of a wood load is the hottest, but certainly not the most efficient and does create the most boil time but is a potential ( not kinetic ) energy hog. The stage four burn is the most efficient and can be the hottest given a certain setup.

Good wood stoves are designed to work the stage four burn as long as possible because of its heating efficiency.

The stage four burn can be abused however. It is when steel is smelted.

Again the stage four burn of wood, WHEN PROPERLY STRUCTURED ( abused ) is the basis for steel smelting.

Carbon loaded coals in the stage four burn DO NOT block oxygen, if they find enough of it, they will suck it like a hog and will smelt steel with it, let alone initiate combustion on newly installed wood/fuel.

I hope that helps those who need help and don't understand the way things work or are really working on this front.

[RedMapleCreek]

I'll take flames licking the bottom of my pan over a bed of glowing coals every time. If I was trying to forge iron, then I would have the iron in the coals. An evaporator pan is not in contact with coals so flames on the pan transfer much more heat than a bed of coals a foot or so away.

[Sugar Bear]

I'll take flames licking the bottom of my pan over a bed of glowing coals every time. If I was trying to forge iron, then I would have the iron in the coals. An evaporator pan is not in contact with coals so flames on the pan transfer much more heat than a bed of coals a foot or so away.

I would to, but it is not necessarily working that way every time, and certainly not in a home built arch.

At times it has not worked that way in my arch.

And apparently as Swingpore earlier stated, it did not appear to work that way in his arch.

And I may appear arrogant but I am not arrogant enough to not believe him.

He told us that his best boil rate always seemed to come in the stage four burn ( mostly coals )

I don't think its from the amount of wood or the timing of the wood.

Its got to be from either the oxygen supply provided in the stage four burn being too intense and too easily getting to the carbon loaded coals ( most likely ) or too much moisture in his wood ( also possible ) or a combination of both.

Type of wood will also play a role in the intensity of the stage four burn vs the stage three burn as well.

But everybody knows in a typical arch the stage three where flames are licking our pans is where we peel off most of our water albeit less efficiently.

Thats OK so long as wood is plentiful and cheap.

[M&M Maple Grove]

Hey folks, first off, you’re taking yourselves way too seriously. We’re all supposed to be enjoying this.

Swingpure, happy to hear you’re having fun with it. It’s a very slippery slope.

Definitely ditch the damper. I assume that may be what’s causing your smoke issues.

So 6” stack? Is that consistent throughout? No restrictions? I haven’t read completely through the thread so my apologies if these suggestions have been made already.

Have you tried firing alternate sides? It’s been years since but I was able to use this method on my cement arch. Once you have a well established fire and bed of coals an hour or so into your boil, you would then load one side up to the bottom of the pan. This allows the other side to perform in that sweet spot you have been disturbing as you load. Repeat on opposite side in seven minutes.

I believe the air restriction debate is being blown out of proportion(ha, no pun intended) These are minor issues. A solid bed of coals serves 2 purposes:

First, immense BALANCED heat. There’s a reason all the big boys roll this way.

Second is a platform to bring the flames closer to the pan. Try firing every 7 minutes with this method.

[Someclown]

Although I do like reading the comments
The OP has already mentioned the reason for the smoke in his setup was because the wind direction that day and leaks in his arch to what he's already done some mods to. Also the fact he pushed the coals to far back unknowingly blocked the exhaust from going up the ramp and out the stack somewhat.was probably the biggest factor in his smoke issue and boil rate that day.
Like I mentioned swingpure keep track of what your changing and you will figure out what works best for you setup at your location
I'm not a professional syrup maker by any means just a backyard but have figured out over the few years of changes Ive made and visits to other backyard setups that no two are the same. Small wood splits every ? minutes, lots of air to keep the flames going and coal burning down to ash will serve you well.
I don't disagree with anyone's comments they're all good
Good luck this weekend, by the looks of the forecast we should be getting some decent runs for the next week.

[Sugar Bear]

I have a similar arch design to Swingpore made with block and have used it for six years now.

Although I think Swingpores is better than mine.

Like Swingpore I on occasion have had smoke leaks and the best boil rates over the early stage four burn ( beginning of the coal bed ) especially in my earlier years.

It seemed to happen the most when I used damp or green wood and on a burn after my arch was cleaned free of ashes with a snow shovel.

IMO what was happening was as follows ...

The damp wood burned poorly ( but was able to burn because of excellent oxygen supply that was unblocked by the cleaned out ashes ) through the stages of 1, 2 and 3 ( smoke leaks more prevalent then they should be through all three of these stages ) . Combustion was never really complete in any of these stages although with PROPERLY dry wood it would have been in stage 3. Lots of Crup up the stack and left in the coals forming. Making charcoal in my arch.

When stage 4 was FINALLY reached my coals were extra rich on carbon and also got enough air to form the hottest temperatures of the burn ( relatively complete combustion ) thereby producing my best boil rates. My home made char coal was not blocking air but it was beginning to fully combust at stage four.

Nowadays I use extra dry wood and rely on it for most of my evaporation energy coming from the stage 3 combustion. I sometimes on occasion toss wet/damp wood in the arch and go back to the char coal burning.

These days I usually refuel at the beginning of my stage four burn with extra dry wood but this depends on the type of wood I use. If I am using for example black locust substantial's I let the stage 4 burn boil go for a while on its own. These such coals seem to be turbo charged. Black Locust needs to be air dried for at least two seasons given almost any size.

If I am using repurposed cedar scraps I refuel at the very end of stage 3 burn.

If I am using dry wood I don't worry so much about air supply and ashes blocking air flow from beneath. Dry wood will create excellent stage three complete combustion almost anywhere. Although a tight arch will need to be opened a bit.

Wood Wet/damp even slightly will combust but not anywhere. But is very capable ( depending on how wet it is ) of creating excellent stage 4 combustion, ( Coal stage ) it just takes time and effort but will very like create the best boil rates of the entire burn.

So with this said the question for Swingpore is ... are you sure your wood is dry enough?

[Sugar Bear]

Definitely ditch the damper. I assume that may be what’s causing your smoke issues.



Definitely and put it somewhere will you will forget where it is if your wood is not fully seasoned.

[Big_Eddy]

Coals are for marshmallows. Evaporators need flames, flames and more flames. All thoughts about efficiency go up the chimney. It’s all about the most heat in the shortest amount of time.
You need a bed of coals so when you add new wood, it will ignite fast. And, Yes, when you toss new wood in, the boil will slow down until the volatile gases form. Once they ignite, the boil and the roar will resume.
If all you have is coals, all you will get is a gentle simmer. And if you are still in doubt which is hotter, try cooking your marshmallows over flames.

Swingpure, try adding another 4’ to your stack. I’m running a 20’ stack on my evaporator, and with a hot fire, the natural draft will suck in leaves from 12” away.

[Sugar Bear]

If all you have is coals, all you will get is a gentle simmer. And if you are still in doubt which is hotter, try cooking your marshmallows over flames.



Your so brilliant and observant.

Thanks for letting me know how it is.

And that certainly explains why Swingpore gets his best boil rate over mostly coals.

[Swingpure]

Today I had a great boil. I had done a few things to help eliminate the smoke and improve the draft, but I think the biggest thing that attributed to the success was putting less wood in each time, instead of filling it full to the pans with 8/10 pieces of wood, today I did half, about 4 to 5 pieces of wood and gave about 10 minutes between wood loadings.

When my induction element pre boiling cannot keep up, I know it am doing well and many times I had to add cold sap to keep up.

Another factor today was there was a fairly strong north wind and it blew all of the steam and smoke out the end and I think to some degree, it worked like a blower, as I saw some gusts moving some of the ashes around. The combustion seemed good, as the smoke exiting the stack was for the most part invisible or a light white.

[Swingpure]

While I was boiling today I though about the new evaporator. Basically it would be $4,000 bucks. 12 years ago when I was working, that would not be a problem, but now I have to prioritize where my money goes and is there a better place for the money to go, like new flooring in two bedrooms. I was thinking I could work this summer and earn the money for it, but then I thought I will be 67 this fall and I only have so many unknown healthy summers left, do I really want to waste one working.

I also thought if I get a large pan, I can redesigned my evaporator to be almost smoke free, solving that problem.

The options would be a 2x5 flat pan or a divided pan. The redesigned concrete/cinderblock evaporator, will not be in a true fully enclosed sugar shack. Although what I make will be permanent, it will not be your typical sugar house and will have removesble/hinged/sliding roof and wall panels. I am not sure if that type of building would be conducive to a divided pan.

[ecolbeck]

I bet you could find an evaporator that would vastly improve your experience (in terms of comfort and efficiency) for way less than $4,000. If you keep your current setup, divided pans can be used anywhere. My first year I used a 2x3 divided pan outside on a rock/cinderblock arch.

[Sugar Bear]

I hope to the god of sugar you have fallen in love Swingpore.

If you are happy with the quality and quantity of your syrup, stick with what you have.

If you want quick/hot combustion, make sure your wood is well dried. And your air supply is appropriate.

Otherwise you risk things other then a long wait for your best boil over coals and smoke leaks.

You risk things like a chimney fire which is a fire long after the coals have even gone out. And when the next fire is lit.

Not my words but .... "Once a chimney fire is going, it can burn up to 2000 degrees F, which is hot enough to break and crack clay flue tiles and melt metal flue liners in mere moments."

Don't try roasting marshmallows over a chimney fire.

But if it lasts long enough ... you will get your best boil over it for sure. I don't suggest putting a pan on top of your stack.

[ecolbeck]

It’s worth noting that any sugar maker who has a chimney fire is doing at least 1/2 a dozen things wrong.

[M&M Maple Grove]

I’ll give you this sugar bear, no one speaks more passionately about fire than you.

[Sugar Bear]

It’s worth noting that any sugar maker who has a chimney fire is doing at least 1/2 a dozen things wrong.

Could only be one thing ... burning wet wood for a long period of time, months days or years and then igniting its by products stuck in the flue ( not in the coals ) with a really hot fire made with really dry wood one day or one night.

I have never scene or witnessed one but been told they are absolutely terrifying.

[Sugar Bear]

Wood combustion is by far the most complicated aspect of maple sugaring. Not the most difficult but most complicated.

Is all we need is dry wood and decent air flow.

[Sugar Bear]

I’ll give you this sugar bear, no one speaks more passionately about fire than you.

Should also give me credit for explaining the possibilities and reasons for why this might happen ... "often" in Swingpores fire box. As it can and does happen.

"One thing I noticed is that often I get my best boiling, is when the wood inside had burnt down and there were more coals than whole pieces of wood."

"Often" is a pretty strong word in the above sentence ... so the problem solvers ( Doctors ) of the situation should take it seriously.

Simply put he is pushing too many of the volatiles from the flame stage into the coal stage and generating more heat in the box at that time by igniting them at that time. Certainly, and easily possible given a certain approach. I have done it many times. Charcoal makers have been doing it for centuries now. Not necessarily the best approach if you are trying to burn the most wood and peel of the most water from the sap in the least amount of time. It might me a better approach if you are trying to heat your house over time say. Once again wood stoves, good ones anyway, try to push volatiles of the wood, into the coal burning stage as much as possible, at a reduced airflow, for a longer slower burn and heat over time. But at anytime the wood stove operator can explode those volatiles into high heat if they wish to.

Pushing volatiles from the flame stage into the coal stage would also be consistent with smoke escapement from such a homemade arch with this approach.

Been there, done that, still do it from time to time, but like most maple sap boilers, prefer the flame stage to be as fast and as hot as possible, as I have no more or less time then anybody else.

How do you like Buxton?

[M&M Maple Grove]

Trivia point for sugar bear. Moved here 15 years ago from Long Island, New York. I find it rather uneventful… Exactly what I was looking for.

There seems to be many different interpretations of “coals” on this thread. You sugar bear, clearly have a much better understanding of combustion than most, well beyond me so allow me to talk in simple terms. When I open my firebox, I use heavy leather welding gloves to load. I can only work within the box for 4 to 5 seconds at most before I must remove my hand due to the heat. Whatever that extremely hot glowing mass is called seems to be up for debate. Personally, I refer to them as coals. Plenty of fire coming off that pile as well. Hopefully next year, I’ll remember to roast a marshmallow on a stick one time during loading and post a video on here. It should make for some good entertainment.

I will add to the debate about pushing the coals back that it shouldn’t be necessary. If it is, the wood is not burning properly.

I’m also confused on the comment about burning coals down to ash. What are you burning? If I’m confused with that, I’m sure the OP is as well. Lots of mixed opinions.

Working on a cement arch is a tremendous challenge to begin with considering the massive heat sink of the ground and mass of the cement. Takes a long time to get all that stuff heated up. To answer the opening posts question from another thread, this is why you don’t see poured cement arches. Way too much mass to heat up. I commend all you cement arch boilers. I recall a few late nights of boiling in freezing rain and sleet a few times back in the day. Can’t say I miss it.

[aamyotte]

To answer your dilemma of the evaporator and pan moke seepage I have a suggestion that will help seal the pans.
My setup is 2 pans on a barrel. I build a frame using bed frame angles. I have 6 sets in my shop that I've found free, yes I know I have a problem.�� I built it so the pans slip snuggly in the frame. Around the perimeter of the frame I put fireplace gasket. When the pan sits in the frame there's a seal for flames and smoke.

For the larger space between the pans I filled in with steel plate.

If you're not handy with a welder there should be some in your area that can fabricate one for you.

You worked all your life, as you say don't waste this summer working. They seem too short.

If you want some pics shoot me a PM with your contact info.

[Swingpure]

I bet you could find an evaporator that would vastly improve your experience (in terms of comfort and efficiency) for way less than $4,000. If you keep your current setup, divided pans can be used anywhere. My first year I used a 2x3 divided pan outside on a rock/cinderblock arch.

So at night would you cover the divided pan with a simple piece of plywood, or would you need a better fitting piece of metal?

When you draw it off, do you just look at the temperature gauge and when the temperature of the syrup teaches your target temperature, you draw it off, until such time, it drops below that temperature? Then finish the syrup elsewhere, like normal?

You never have to lift the divided pan, unless you need to clean it, or turn it 180° to reverse flow?

Thanks

(My one concern with just a flat pan, is it is just me doing all of this, and at the end of the day, when the batch is done, you can let a certain amount of syrup out of the valve, but eventually you have to move the pan off of the fire so you do not scorch it and any remaining syrup. That might be hard to do by myself. I know just leaning over and lifting a relatively full steam pan, sloshing, is a little hard.)

[ecolbeck]

So at night would you cover the divided pan with a simple piece of plywood, or would you need a better fitting piece of metal?

When you draw it off, do you just look at the temperature gauge and when the temperature of the syrup teaches your target temperature, you draw it off, until such time, it drops below that temperature? Then finish the syrup elsewhere, like normal?

You never have to lift the divided pan, unless you need to clean it, or turn it 180° to reverse flow?

Thanks

(My one concern with just a flat pan, is it is just me doing all of this, and at the end of the day, when the batch is done, you can let a certain amount of syrup out of the valve, but eventually you have to move the pan off of the fire so you do not scorch it and any remaining syrup. That might be hard to do by myself. I know just leaning over and lifting a relatively full steam pan, sloshing, is a little hard.)

I only did the block arch one year and I was doing the 10 hour marathon boils on weekends thing. I would draw off near syrup as it was produced and then at the end of the day I would drain the whole pan and move it indoors. I would then finish on propane. Now I draw of heavy and dilute later which is a much easier system.

You have to make sure to flood the pan with a little extra sap after the last firing to prevent scorching. If your setup is indoors, then there's no reason to have to move the pan.

I set the thermometer each day based on the hydrometer reading and then draw off syrup when it reaches temp.

[wobbletop]

Now I draw of heavy and dilute later which is a much easier system.




Do you use some type of defoamer? On my barrel stove, I can't get to syrup without it foaming and overflowing the pan. I take it off the stove and finish inside when I can't keep the foam down.

[ecolbeck]

Do you use some type of defoamer? On my barrel stove, I can't get to syrup without it foaming and overflowing the pan. I take it off the stove and finish inside when I can't keep the foam down.

Defoamer is a must. Lots of choices out there. Currently I’m using the CDL powder stuff. Sprinkle a little in the pan as needed. Also keeping the pan clean and niter free helps a lot.

[berkshires]

So at night would you cover the divided pan with a simple piece of plywood, or would you need a better fitting piece of metal?

I definitely would not want all that condensation from whatever's in the plywood running into my syrup all night long. I'd rather use tinfoil than that! But a single piece of 2x5 flat stainless steel is not that expensive. That's what I use.


When you draw it off, do you just look at the temperature gauge and when the temperature of the syrup teaches your target temperature, you draw it off, until such time, it drops below that temperature? Then finish the syrup elsewhere, like normal?

Correct


You never have to lift the divided pan, unless you need to clean it, or turn it 180° to reverse flow?


Correct. And in all both those cases, you drain the pan first. By the way, depending on your setup, you may not even need to lift the pan (or drain it) to reverse flow.



(My one concern with just a flat pan, is it is just me doing all of this, and at the end of the day, when the batch is done, you can let a certain amount of syrup out of the valve, but eventually you have to move the pan off of the fire so you do not scorch it and any remaining syrup. That might be hard to do by myself. I know just leaning over and lifting a relatively full steam pan, sloshing, is a little hard.)

I would never in a million years try to batch boil on a big undivided 2x5 pan. Especially not as a one-man operation. I don't think I'd even want to go over 2x4 for a single divided pan. If I were doing 2x5 I would want something like a 2x3 pan and a 2x2 pan. The latter being your syrup pan.

Gabe

[Swingpure]

I definitely would not want all that condensation from whatever's in the plywood running into my syrup all night long. I'd rather use tinfoil than that! But a single piece of 2x5 flat stainless steel is not that expensive. That's what I use.


Correct



Correct. And in all both those cases, you drain the pan first. By the way, depending on your setup, you may not even need to lift the pan (or drain it) to reverse flow.



I would never in a million years try to batch boil on a big undivided 2x5 pan. Especially not as a one-man operation. I don't think I'd even want to go over 2x4 for a single divided pan. If I were doing 2x5 I would want something like a 2x3 pan and a 2x2 pan. The latter being your syrup pan.

Gabe


Thanks, lots of great answers and advice!

[Swingpure]

I am not sure if the aromas of sugar are affecting my brain or not, the other day and again today, I removed more of the plywood walls. The smoke and steam exited the shelter without issue. A steeper roof would allow for any upward steam to rise and go out the ends.

My current shelter is about 20’ away from one of the doors of the house. I have easy access to hydro and water, and my good wife brings out my breakfast and lunch if need be.

I am going to half heartily ask about buying a real evaporator, I do not expect a positive response. I figured I will be using a new and improved concrete block, or solid concrete evaporator, with a yet undecided new pans.

But I digress, getting back to the sugar brain thought, I thought why don’t I build shelter similar to a park shelter with open sides, and a peaked roof, that would protect the evaporator from most rain and snow. During the summer it could be a sitting area. I would pour a concrete pad under it, and in the summer we could use it to cook on, or put a board on top of it and call it a table. My wife is okay with the idea.

I have sat outside my existing shelter he whole time except when working on it, so being exposed to the elements is no biggie.

Anyways, just a crazy thought as I am down to three pans on today’s boil.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0e8elNCCwOMD00Mfwdvv9oHlw#Home

[berkshires]

Looks good, though I would still put a cupola, or at least flaps in it.

Gabe

[Swingpure]

Looks good, though I would still put a cupola, or at least flaps in it.

Gabe

I could do a cupola, or someone here suggested one of those roof turbine vents, but if there is no wind, they do not help. A cupola is within my framing skills.

Come syrup season, I would have to add some things to the open shelter, especially if I have an RO going, and for a coil around the stove pipe and associated sap tank, and shelving or a cabinet.

I could also rig it so I could put up tarps if I had to minimize blowing rain or snow. I did not have any severe weather this spring to deal with while boiling.

[Swingpure]

Su far the reviews on my syrup are positive, so I must have done something right.

From friends:

“We had homemade waffles tonight with maple syrup (or was it maple syrup with waffles?) SPECTACULAR!,!!! It was so good!”

“!! Best maple syrup I’ve ever tasted!”

“We did the taste test between Costco maple syrup and your maple syrup. Yours wins hands down”

and from my 5 year old Grand daughter “ I don’t like it, I love it!”

We had our first family pancake breakfast today and the “Liquid Love” went over well.

[Z/MAN]

Su far the reviews on my syrup are positive, so I must have done something right.

From friends:

“We had homemade waffles tonight with maple syrup (or was it maple syrup with waffles?) SPECTACULAR!,!!! It was so good!”

“!! Best maple syrup I’ve ever tasted!”

“We did the taste test between Costco maple syrup and your maple syrup. Yours wins hands down”

and from my 5 year old Grand daughter “ I don’t like it, I love it!”

We had our first family pancake breakfast today and the “Liquid Love” went over well.



You now know that all that work and planning was worth it. Problem is you are now hooked and will be addicted! All of us here on the Trader already knew that. lol

[Swingpure]

A short discussion with my wife makes an new evaporator not likely, so a new pan it is. The guy I was going to get the evaporator from, is also the guy I would buy the pan from. Speaking with him and describing my setup, he suggested a 2x5 divided pan with a float box.

Now my cinder block evaporator, even redesigned for next year, will likely have vigorous boiling heat for the first 2/3rds of the pan (from the door) and less vigorous near the stovepipe. Will that affect how a divided pan works?

[Z/MAN]

When you remodel your cinder block evaporator, install a tight-fitting door so all your incoming air enters under the grates. A base stack the width of your evaporator and an 8-inch stack and that baby should roar.

[Swingpure]

When you remodel your cinder block evaporator, install a tight-fitting door so all your incoming air enters under the grates. A base stack the width of your evaporator and an 8-inch stack and that baby should roar.

Sorry for my ignorance, what is a base stack?

Edit: I looked it up and understand it now, I really don’t have a base stack,as I come out the back. I made a concrete block with a 6” stove pipe in it. I could make another and add an 8” stove pipe this time, or I can redesign it so that I have an actual bast stack, which will be harder and more expensive.

(The picture is an old picture and I later added a 45° ramp to it)

https://share.icloud.com/photos/077DKfc9t429a9KUH3OPJ32NQ

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0520-fagPNsfNLurIkidEBXUQ

[Someclown]

Sorry for my ignorance, what is a base stack?

Edit: I looked it up and understand it now, I really don’t have a base stack,as I come out the back. I made a concrete block with a 6” stove pipe in it. I could make another and add an 8” stove pipe this time, or I can redesign it so that I have an actual bast stack, which will be harder and more expensive.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/077DKfc9t429a9KUH3OPJ32NQ

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0520-fagPNsfNLurIkidEBXUQ

There's a picture in this thread that the stack opening is circled in red, I believe this is the base stack ZMAN is referring to. You would have to figure out what size yours would need to be. With the base stack the width of your evaporator you will get the heat under the entire pan width instead of just the center were it gets pulled to the round chimney pipe

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?35947-2x3-evaporator-finished-and-fired

[Swingpure]

A game changer for me and my evaporator was when posters talked about the moisture in the wood causing the boil to slow down and it was suggested to put less wood on. I found that adding just one layer of wood on, works best.

My fire box is two log lengths deep. When I add wood, I toss back one layer to the rear half, then place one layer on the front half and that works great.

Looking at professional evaporators, it looks like the fire box is one log length deep. ( I could easily stand to be corrected on that point). If they are only one log length deep, when I redesign my cinder block evaporator, should I shorten my firebox? And how much height should there be from the grate to the bottom of the pan?

Thanks

Gary