sugar house size........

[Maple Producer]

Hi yall what size of sugar house would you build? I have a 2x6 evaporator currently at 250 taps with the potential to grow probably to 500-600 in the next 5-10 years... also I use a old dozer with a tank on the front to gather with that I would like to have real close or inside..... Also what are your thoughts on a carport and enclosing it? Thanks!!!!!!

[tcross]

i have a similar set up so i'll throw my .02 in. I have a 2.5x8 evaporator, run vacuum, have all my wood and all my sap storage inside. I run about 400 taps with max out at 550. my sugarhouse is 26' deep by 32' wide. the building was an old horse barn i gutted, cleaned up and converted into a sugarhouse. The room where my arch is (middle of sugarhouse), is 12' wide by 26' deep. my sap storage and vacuum pump room take up aprox 8' by 18' and my wood storage the remainder(plus a few emergency cords stacked outside). when it's just my wife and i boiling, the evaporator room is plenty big. if we have a few people stop by and hang out, it's not quite big enough. So, this summer we're blowing out the ext wall for my sap storage and adding another 4-5 feet. however that 4-5 feet is really just being added to the width of the evap room, making it 16ish feet by 26 feet. we do all our canning in our house kitchen so that isn't needed in the sugarhouse. I also have a second floor where all my supplies are kept.

hope that helps some. i feel like, whatever you come up with for size, add a few more feet. i dont' think you can be to "big" but can certainly be to small.

[Maple Producer]

That Sounds like about what I need! I do want to be able to upgrade to a 2x8 if i need to. Thanks!

[VTnewguy]

Our sugarhouse is 16*20 which we built for a 2*6. Plenty big enough, if I had to do it again I would run it off center with the hoods to save space.

[ennismaple]

Whatever size you pick will be too small in 5 years! Sugarmakers are like goldfish - we grow to the size of the bowl.

I highly recommend you visit a number of producers that have similar setups to what you may build and see what you like and what you don't like.

When I build our next sugar camp there are a few must haves - floor drains on both sides of the evaporator for washup, a separate bottling room, an RO room larger than a walk-in closet (ours is maybe 7x7 and houses 3x 8" membranes) and a separate tool room with slide up door for chainsaws, fuel, atv's etc... Also on my list are external silo tanks for sap and for permeate plus a working milk tank to refrigerate several days' worth of concentrate. We currently have a 3000 gallon (raw sap), 2x800 gallon (permeate) and a 500 gallon (concentrate) tank inside our camp and they take up a LOT of space that would be better used for other things.

I also recommend you design to allow for it to be expanded in the future when you realize it was built too small.

[MISugarDaddy]

We have a 2'x6' evaporator and and a 16'x24' sugarhouse and it definitely is not large enough when you factor in space for a filter press, bottling area, etc.. We store our sap and our RO in a separate 14'x20' building. I would recommend a minimum of 24'x32' for your sugarhouse.
Gary

[Bucket Head]

Our sugarhouse is 24'x40' and we had a 2.5x6 when it was started. Mid-build an opportunity to purchase a 2.5x10' came about and I got it. I know, your thinking 24x40 is cavernous! Well, as stated above by others, it really isn't once you start bringing in all the "support" stuff. Equipment, tanks, wood, wheelers, tools, displays, tractors, visitors, tables, chairs, etc., etc., etc.,- all take up more space than you can plan for! Make the building as big as you can the first time. I know, easier said than done sometimes, but you will be thankful for going bigger now. Good luck with it!

Steve

[NhShaun]

Very envious of these gigantic sounding sugar houses. I'm hoping my next one will be something similar. I can tell you that a 12x16 building is not large enough for a 2x6 evaporator or many visitors at all. Especially after cramming in all the other stuff that accumulated after 5 or 6 years of sugaring. I can also tell you that any building spacious or crowded, beats boiling outside!

I like the idea of floor drains, worth every penny.

[Spanielslovesappin]

Im at 24x30 with a 2.5x10... BUT no extra equipment is stored in this space and i am eyeing up expanding into adjacent space to make it it 44x30. The common thread here is don't build a 15x15 sugarhouse... and no matter what you build its never big enough, build what you can afford + 20%!

[VT_K9]

Our old sugarhouse housed a 2x6...that was it. Enough room to walk on either side and just enough to open the door and add wood....Then we expanded into and added on a couple sheds...like a shanty town. Functional until the 2x6 became too small.

We did a bit of calculating then some more and came up with a 28'x32' with footings which extended beyond the building to add to. I did NOT want shanty town coming back. Instead of footings we went with an Alaskan slab using 2" foam under and 24"x18" foam forms. We decided on 28'X60'. We are three years into it and 32' X 68' would have been better. Not much bigger, but the tractor and a SxS would fit better. the SxS is now in a small shed of it's own.

We stepped up to a 3x10 evaporator and have 1 4'x16' sap tank and 1 4'x12' permeant tank in the room with the evaporator. We have 12' x 12' RO room which also houses our well pump controller and hot water tank. We have a kitchen outside the RO room and open to the evaporator area. We went with 12' walls and have a floor with 3' knee walls above the kitchen and RO room. We also added a cat walk/platform above the garage space which houses the fuel tank for the evaporator (we ran the fuel line in conduit under the concrete along with power to the evaporator) and a tractor and excavator.

It is a large building and does work very well for us. The size difference of what I kind of wish we went with is just a little more space around the equipment so we don't have to move it out in the winter for a quick project.

They say double what you think is good for now and you should be okay. Plan on a RO room (we have a direct vent heater which uses very little propane to heat our 12x12 RO room) and kitchen. Plan on having hot water. Plan on a 3x10 or evaporator if you are happy with a 2x6 (we now have room for a 5x14).

Enjoy building it.

Mike

[Maple Producer]

What do you guys do for floors? Gravel? Wood? Block? Concretes out of the budget:(

[LMP Maple]

I am sure others will disagree but my advice to you would be if there is anyway that you can scrape together enough to do concrete do it you will be glad that you did. Beg steal or borrow. My dad built a beautiful new sugar house about 7 years ago and cheeped out on the floor and did a gravel floor. It is miserable stuff. Keeping things level is a choir. We have some older people that stop by and putting them in a chair on that stuff is a wobbling nightmare. Also rolling barrels of syrup is a challenge. My brother and I will end up moving everything out someday and doing it right however we could have done it once. When I built my very tiny sugar house at my house the first thing I did was a concrete floor. You can put drains in the floor etc. You can sit on a bar stool without falling over. That's my two cents worth and I am sure others will disagree and have other advice. Good luck.

[TapTapTap]

I am sure others will disagree but my advice to you would be if there is anyway that you can scrape together enough to do concrete do it you will be glad that you did. .

No disagreement here on any of you're points. And I'll add more sanitary compared to gravel - I regularly sweep and washdown my floor. Can't sweep and mop gravel, can you?

You can also build the concrete slab to support the building. I'd prefer a footing/frostwall system but a slab with thickened edges can work fine over a suitable well-drained subgrade.

And surface drainage is also very important. Make sure you site the building so that the final grades pitch away from the building which often requires fill and preferably gravel under your slab/building.

Good Luck.

Ken

[tcross]

i'd say, if a concrete floor is totally out of the question, packed gravel with some crushed stone over it, would be my choice. keeps the mud out! obviously nothing is going to compete with concrete. Could you possibly budget enough to at least pour a concrete curb to put your building on? and when money permits, pour the floor at a later date? i say this, because i am in a sugar house that had a dirt floor. it sucked! the building moves so much where i am located in the winter. my lines are tied to my building with barely 2% slope... some winters they'd move up 3-6" and mess up my slope. i've since added a new sap house that's on concrete which took care of that issue. i've also added a concrete floor to the boiling room... barely have to level my arch now and when i do, it's easy! if building brand new, i'd find every penny i could to at least put the structure on a sturdy concrete foundation wall!

[aamyotte]

In my instance concrete is impossible due to the access to my shack is by ATV, tractor or snowmachine. I will use pressure treated joists and plywood. It provide a sturdy level floor that can be swept. Not as good as concrete but off the ground.

[Maple Producer]

I agree concrete would be best... My budget hardly allows very much of a building.. But i have seen guys use wood floors How does that work?? also how do you fireproof a small shed? I am looking at basicly a 16x20 minibarn built out of scraps. I really do want to be able to atleast sweep the floor. thats my challenge for the day!

[wobbletop]

I built mine with wood floor. It's on the small size 10'x12'.

It's on 4x4 PT skids plus 2x6 floor joists and 3/4 plywood floor. I use left over steel roofing under the evaporator including about 3' extending beyond the door to catch any random embers falling out.

The benefit is I could move the shack in the future if I need to.

[Maple Producer]

I built mine with wood floor. It's on the small size 10'x12'.

It's on 4x4 PT skids plus 2x6 floor joists and 3/4 plywood floor. I use left over steel roofing under the evaporator including about 3' extending beyond the door to catch any random embers falling out.

The benefit is I could move the shack in the future if I need to.



So all you have between plywood and the evaporator is steel sheeting? Does it stay cool enough? I dont need a fire hazard but I like the idea of wood floors!

[aamyotte]

I have a piece of cementboard under the front part of the evaporator for embers that fall out. I put cement board on the wall with a spacer to keep the wall from getting hot.

[Maple Producer]

I have a piece of cementboard under the front part of the evaporator for embers that fall out. I put cement board on the wall with a spacer to keep the wall from getting hot.
But the floor doesnt get too hot? Thats great!

[aamyotte]

But the floor doesnt get too hot? Thats great!
Only the front 16" of the barrel gets warm on the underside where the firebox is located but not burning hot. The back half of the evaporator has insulation and brick so the heat doesn't escape.

[wobbletop]

So all you have between plywood and the evaporator is steel sheeting? Does it stay cool enough? I dont need a fire hazard but I like the idea of wood floors!

As long as the evaporator is insulated well enough, it shouldn't be a concern. I'm more concerned with random embers getting out the door when I add wood.

Also, the hotter area is the single wall stove pipe, so any area that is close should be well insulated from the heat.

[Maple Producer]

Ok My 2x6 has no floor so I have galvanized roof metal plus a layer of fire brick on top and it gets pretty warm. maybe its not insulated enough?

[Z/MAN]

My 2x3 sits on a wooden floor of 2x10s. The firebox has a bottom and I have that bottom covered with firebrick. No heat at the floor. In front of the arch I have a piece of flagstone about 24x 24. That takes care of any coals that might at times fall out of the arch. Your draft should keep any embers going up the stack.