Single pass to 20% advice

[mapleack]

Hi all,
I currently have a lapierre 600 with a 5hp high pressure pump and one tower. I'd like to be able to single pass to 20% next season, running straight to a working bulk tank instead of recirculating and losing quality. I'm not necessarily worried about throughput speed. If I have options what's the best beyond just buying a new RO. (out of the budget) I'm thinking a second tower with a booster pump between is the best but haven't firmed up any details.
Thanks in advance!
-Andy

[Kh7722]

You would definitely need a second tower. 20 percent is difficult to get even with a two post, you would probably be looking at a three post type numbers if you would like to have much output. Speak with your sales rep, but 20 on a single post is probably not going to happen unless your raw sap is 5 percent or better

[fred]

best to trade yours in and get a 2 post expandable. this will give you 2 to 22% one pass at 120 gal/hr concentrate. what you have now will need bigger pumps and still not give you your moneys worth. that should give you a close 1 to 1 with your evaporator and not going higher than that will work without changing your pans flat surface.

[mapleack]

You would definitely need a second tower. 20 percent is difficult to get even with a two post, you would probably be looking at a three post type numbers if you would like to have much output. Speak with your sales rep, but 20 on a single post is probably not going to happen unless your raw sap is 5 percent or better Thanks, I’m not concerned that much about concentrate output rate, the plan is only boiling once a week.

[TapTapTap]

I'd like to be able to single pass to 20% next season, running straight to a working bulk tank instead of recirculating and losing quality. I'm not necessarily worried about throughput speed.

I'm not following your concern about quality from recirculating if you have a working bulk tank. It seems that heat introduced into the concentrate to achieve 20 % would be similar no matter how many passes - except for some compounded energy losses that unfortunately dissipate to the concentrate. Even so, the bulk tank allows you to chill it back down. Therefore, I think you as already have a very efficient process.
Ken

[ecp]

if you are not worried about output i would say add another 8 inch post and a 4inch post (possibly a booster pump but it would have to be a small one). Even at that you will be pushing it.

[collinsmapleman2012]

add another tower- lapierre units are very easy to expand, theyre not limited like many others are. talk to your local dealer about it.

[DrTimPerkins]

Normally an RO membrane can achieve (under optimal conditions) about a 4.7X increase in sap sugar concentration. So if you're starting with 2 Brix sap, you'd be able to get to 9.4 Brix. Sometimes machines can be tweaked to do better, but you're probably pushing beyond normal operating conditions, which can have unintended (often bad) consequences.

In order to get higher, you'd have to have 2 membranes in sequence. The first would bump up the sap sugar to one level and the second to a higher level. The problem this causes if using only 2 membranes is that the feed rate into the second membrane may be too low, which can result in accelerated membrane fouling. The solution there is generally to have 2 membranes plumbed in parallel doing the initial concentration which feed a third membrane doing the second concentration.

Sap to 20 Brix in one pass would be quite difficult to achieve without creating some serious problems.

Three thoughts....
1. Circulate the concentrate back to your sap tank until the concentration in the tank reaches about 5-6 Brix, then tighten the RO down to 20 Brix and send it to the bulk tank.
2. Do as Ken suggests and RO into the bulk tank first, then run it through a second pass back to the bulk tank until it gets to 20 Brix. The advantage with this approach is the concentrate will stay colder.
3. Get a 3-post RO (2 parallel posts into a third post) to do single-pass to 20 Brix.

[fred]

sap to 20 brix in one pass would be quite difficult to achieve without creating some serious problems.




cdl and lapierre can get 2-22% with 2 membranes. We have several of both brands around usdoing it everyday, its all about the pumps

[DrTimPerkins]

cdl and lapierre can get 2-22% with 2 membranes. We have several of both brands around usdoing it everyday, its all about the pumps

Yes, this is possible with some of the newer machines.

[FL Maple]

My 1000 gph rated D&G machine has two 8x40 posts and a Turbo mixing button. I concentrate to 20+% in one pass at 350-400 gph.

[mapleack]

My 1000 gph rated D&G machine has two 8x40 posts and a Turbo mixing button. I concentrate to 20+% in one pass at 350-400 gph.
FL, what model specifically is your RO?
Thanks

[mapleack]

Also another question for anyone else, what do you think about the D&G standalone brix controller? I'm wondering if I put one of those at the concentrate output of my RO and plumbed it to recirc back to the inlet of the RO with two check valves it would let the system circulate to the set point without having a whole tank of warmer high brix sap for bacteria to love. Then when the brix controller reached its set point it would re-direct the concentrate to my refrigerated tank. Also in response to earlier comments i do not have an easy way to recirculate through the refrigerated tank the way my sugarhouse is laid out nor would it be easy to change that layout. I need concentrate to be final brix when it hits the final bulk tank.