2021 USDA Crop Report

[DrTimPerkins]

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Todays_Reports/reports/crop0621.pdf

Maple section starts on page 11.

Could have been worse I suppose.

[jrgagne99]

I have heard the USDA report significantly underestimates actual production amounts. Does anybody know by how much?

[fred]

Bruce let the guy in charge know 1.5 years ago at the international meeting, that he buys more syrup from new york than what the usda said was made. The same with ohio. It threw his whole theory in a tail spin. Personally i dont think they care. There are few sampled for data and states eliminated, i understand more are coming as funding is pulled away. I know in ohio the data was 25% of tap count and 15% of production. Ohio has too many private outlets with 11,000,000 people, it will never be acurate

[TapTapTap]

It would be nice if their analysis was transparent so users could get a sense of the quality of their results. That said, it's not reasonable to expect high accuracy because of the many challenges..

I recently passed through Sandgate, VT where someone had a super sized operation. I talked to a local who said that there were 175,000 taps there making it the 2nd largest in VT by his count.. The kicker was that the sap was collected and concentrated there but boiled in NY (actually 100 miles away!). So my point is that 1) it would be nice to see that these large operations are counted properly and 2) that there is a footnote explaining why the number of taps in a state aren't contributing to output in a situation like Sandgate.

Ken

[DrTimPerkins]

It is regularly suggested that the USDA NASS numbers are an undercount -- I've heard that since I've been involved. Three things:
1. The data relies upon the voluntary sharing of data with the USDA. That data can't be shared as individual personal data with ANYONE or any other governmental agency. So if you tell NASS how much you make, the IRS isn't going to know about it (from NASS at least).
2. If the results are an undercount, that means the industry isn't willing to share the data. Governmental support (in a wide variety of forms) for an industry is typically based upon how big it is. So if you don't report, there won't be much support. Some states were cut from the USDA NASS maple report a few years back. This was largely due to the fact that industry reporting in those states was so low the USDA didn't think it was worth counting.
3. Despite the fact that many people think the numbers are underreported, they're the best we have.

The Sandgate operation Ken mentioned is (was?) operated by Crown Maple.

[jrgagne99]

Well, at least the data presents some estimate of how good the season was in a relative sense. My state NH was down about 18% from last year. Me and my 150 reds did slightly better than the average per-tap yield in the state, which I consider to be a win.

[TapTapTap]

The Sandgate operation Ken mentioned is (was?) operated by Crown Maple.

That seems correct. There were crowns on their tanks.

There are some news articles on them and they are on wikipedia which makes some interesting claims, such as:

"Crown Maple is the only syrup producer that uses a reverse osmosis filtration system, which removes 80% of the water content from the sap and filters out impurities.[11] "

Are they suggesting it's more than a standard RO?

Ken

[fred]

Are they suggesting it's more than a standard RO?Ken


any modern standard ro will do that percentage. they may be using an ultrafiltration system first. likely just a marketing ploy.

[Sugar Bear]

That seems correct. There were crowns on their tanks.

There are some news articles on them and they are on wikipedia which makes some interesting claims, such as:

"Crown Maple is the only syrup producer that uses a reverse osmosis filtration system, which removes 80% of the water content from the sap and filters out impurities.[11] "

Are they suggesting it's more than a standard RO?

Ken

Yes they are, it is owned by a hedge funder from NYC who received a lot of financial assistance from Chuck Schumer ( the politician that wants to help all the poor people ) to set up the operation on his 800 acres of land.

[Sugar Bear]

Ken

It would also be nice to see that these extraordinarily large operations are funded appropriately and that they do not slander the product of hard working smaller operations like yours.

Please take the time to read the first item in the cache on the following search link. Its an article by the NY Times ( another supporter of the hard working poor man ) back in 2013 about Crown Maple when it started up.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ny+times+crown+maple+syrup+2013&sxsrf=ALeKk02dtM7pdzG9P_5NVIGQp7af1vCGTg%3A1625274 118222&ei=BrffYJj4DInWtAa2n7_AAg&oq=ny+times+crown+maple+syrup+2013&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAM6BwgjELADECc6BwgAEEcQsAM6BQg hEKABOgUIIRCrAkoECEEYAFD0_wNY15EEYJSaBGgBcAJ4AIABu gGIAb4EkgEDNS4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesgBCcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiYk-rz2cXxAhUJK80KHbbPDygQ4dUDCA4&uact=5

This is my favorite sentence in the article.

It pours with a languor more like that of honey, and tastes softer and richer than the “pure maple syrup” sold in most supermarkets (even the stuff in the nice leaf-shaped bottles).

The New York times ... saying F the working man once again.

Rob

[TapTapTap]

Ken

It would also be nice to see that these extraordinarily large operations are funded appropriately and that they do not slander the product of hard working smaller operations like yours.

Please take the time to read the first item in the cache on the following search link. Its an article by the NY Times ( another supporter of the hard working poor man ) back in 2013 about Crown Maple when it started up.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ny+times+crown+maple+syrup+2013&sxsrf=ALeKk02dtM7pdzG9P_5NVIGQp7af1vCGTg%3A1625274 118222&ei=BrffYJj4DInWtAa2n7_AAg&oq=ny+times+crown+maple+syrup+2013&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAM6BwgjELADECc6BwgAEEcQsAM6BQg hEKABOgUIIRCrAkoECEEYAFD0_wNY15EEYJSaBGgBcAJ4AIABu gGIAb4EkgEDNS4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesgBCcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiYk-rz2cXxAhUJK80KHbbPDygQ4dUDCA4&uact=5

This is my favorite sentence in the article.

It pours with a languor more like that of honey, and tastes softer and richer than the “pure maple syrup” sold in most supermarkets (even the stuff in the nice leaf-shaped bottles).

The New York times ... saying F the working man once again.

Rob

Rob,
Thanks for sharing the article - very funny. I see from their website that they sell gallons for $76.50 (under a special promotion)! I'll bet they don't have many customers in Vermont. It's also surprising that their product line is on the dark end of grades. Very dark looks like chocolate syrup in the image and it includes the following description:

"Deeply caramelized flavors and aromas of molasses, crème brûleè, espresso, and cocoa beans with hints of clove, allspice, and anise, make Crown Maple Very Dark Color Strong Taste organic, pure maple syrup the most full-bodied syrup in our line. Complex and packed with flavor, this is our most assertive syrup with the strongest maple impact. This is Grade A, 100% Pure, Certified Organic, Kosher.

I guess if I made my syrup more "assertive" then I could charge more!

Ken

[minehart gap]

I see from their website that they sell gallons for $76.50 (under a special promotion)! It's also surprising that their product line is on the dark end of grades. Very dark looks like chocolate syrup in the image and it includes the following description:

"Deeply caramelized flavors and aromas of molasses, crème brûleè, espresso, and cocoa beans with hints of clove, allspice, and anise, make Crown Maple Very Dark Color Strong Taste organic, pure maple syrup the most full-bodied syrup in our line. Complex and packed with flavor, this is our most assertive syrup with the strongest maple impact. This is Grade A, 100% Pure, Certified Organic, Kosher.

I guess if I made my syrup more "assertive" then I could charge more!

Ken

That is a brilliant marketing tactic. Omaha Steak does it too, the have burger with little fat therefore it has little taste so they raised the price and called it steak burger. I did it one time too, years ago. I was selling a piece of land (no realtor) and didn't get any offers so I raised the price 50% and sold it in the first day. I added nothing to the deal, just made more profit.

Try it. Usually all it takes is a creative way to describe a product. Any one of us could sell our darkest syrup for a higher price by convincing the buyer that it is special. Personally, I prefer the darker syrups so when I am talking to customers, I tell them that and why: most of the time, the customer will pick up a bottle of dark and buy it then call and ask if I have more.

[Sugar Bear]

Ken

What gripes me the most about the issue you pointed out in Sandgate is the foundation behind the operation. Not what they report or don't report when and where. Of course I as 12 gallon per year producer may not have the need for that information like you do or others do.

And of course everybody likes to claim their Syrup is the best and everybody else's is garbage or inferior. I condone that piece of naturalism.

If you had enough money to get the New York Times to "wrong" ( not write ) an article, sweet talking your syrup and trash talking everybody else's you could charge more for your syrup too.

If you had enough money to get high ranking state political figures to jump in and pay for your sugaring operation that would help the process too.

Why should New York State Tax payers have paid for his equipment so that he pays no taxes on his 800 acres of land? Let him do that if he wants a sugar shack to name after his daughters and pay no taxes on his land.

If the state wants to help anybody they should help "Real" ( people that are doing it for their livelihood ) sugar makers in the surrounding area. Give them the money to buy milk trucks to cart the sap off his land and make sugar on their property if he wants the state to pay for his tax break on his land. Such that they can profit from it and pay their employees.

Oh, he is getting the money so that he can create 30 jobs ( minimum wage ) and a tourist destination, that is F'n closed to the public just 2 or 3 years after opening. I wonder what that ( 30 jobs created ) has dropped too.

No I don't hate rich people, and I am not a fan of Bernie Sanders philosophy, but my sentiment is the government should let rich people take care of themselves. Especially if that government walks a different talk!

Rob