How does your 12Volt Vacuum Pump Perform?

[wmick]

I've been battling with how to improve my vacuum level in my remote bush..... Eg... Go with a gas powered vane pump or stick with 12 volt diaphragm pumps, etc...
I think I've decided to stick with a 12 volt system if I can achieve about 20-25inhg.... (thinking about converting a portable generator to propane and auto start, to charge batteries up when they need it)
I hear some good things about some different shurflow models... but I'd like to learn about all the options, from your experience....

I will greatly appreciate your time in responding... (as I'm sure others in the same boat, will as well)
Thanks in advance

I would really like to know what you have for a setup and how it performs...

1. What Specific Pump you are using
2. Number of taps
3. If you have a recirc line to pump
4. Typical vacuum level you can maintain

I'll Start it off....
I currently use a cheap amazon single diaphragm pump..
https://www.amazon.ca/Amarine-Made-Pressure-Diaphragm-1-3GPM-75-102PSI/dp/B07DX2J1R3/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=amarine+made+12+volt+diaphragm+pump&qid=1617286466&sr=8-5
125 taps
I do use a recirc line, but difficult to set it for varying sap flows
Able to achieve about 12-15 inhg put it pulsates a fair bit.
I have an identical setup on 75 taps and it performs about the same.

Thanks again

[Biz]

I have two Shurflo setups, both using my Mountain Maple controller systems.

First one
Shurflo 4008 pump
122 taps, 2/3 red maples 1/3 sugar maples,
No recirculation
25" consistent vacuum when sap is flowing
Deep cycle batteries with solar panels; Backup AC battery charger on long extension cord for those cloudy stretches

Second one
Shurflo 4008 pump
85 taps, all red maples
No recirculation
19-22" vacuum
Deep cycle battery with Battery Tender motorcycle trickle charger on long extension cord

The second system was a bit crankier than the first one on achieving good, steady vacuum unless sap was flowing strong. I attribute the low sap flow to trees being relatively small red maples. It also had vacuum leak issues early on. Tapping dead trees did not help (oops). Any small leak affects vacuum. Next season I am going to experiment with a recirculation line.

Dave

[NhShaun]

I have two Shurflo setups, both using my Mountain Maple controller systems. You did not specify, are these 3/16 or 5/16 lines or some combination running into some size of mainline?

[MISugarDaddy]

We currently run 4 Shurflo 4008 pumps at four different locations in our woodlot. All pumps are connected to 100', 3/4" mainlines, with 12 to 15 laterals off each. Each setup has approximately 85 to 100 taps, all on 5/16" laterals. We have been fortunate to have a very tight system (after resolving minor leaks) so we generally pull 20 to 25 inches of vacuum on each pump. All our pumps are 12 volt and are hooked up to 12 volt deep cycle batteries. Prior to this past season, we brought the pumps and batteries in each night to keep the pumps from freezing and to charge the batteries. This past season, thanks to a fellow trader's suggestion, we used two 700 watt propane inverter generators to power battery chargers to keep the batteries fully charged at all times the pumps were running. (Our pumps are located such that we placed a generator between two locations and ran power cords to the battery chargers.) Our reason for continuing to use the batteries rather than connect the chargers directly to the pumps was to have a backup should a generator stop running during the day. The new setup worked great and saved a lot of work. We still bring in the pumps at night if it is going to freeze, but that is very easy because all pumps have banjo style camlock connections to make removal very easy. We also have all our lines setup so that when we remove a pump, we switch a valve and the sap can then flow directly into a storage tank using gravity.
Gary

[Biz]

I use all 3/16" lines running into a star fitting.


You did not specify, are these 3/16 or 5/16 lines or some combination running into some size of mainline?

[Biz]

My controllers have an automated sap bypass valve which purges sap from pump when it turns off. The systems were put out in February and stay outside, unheated, even at single digit temperatures. No freeze damage or lost sap.

Dave


We currently run 4 Shurflo 4008 pumps at four different locations in our woodlot. All pumps are connected to 100', 3/4" mainlines, with 12 to 15 laterals off each. Each setup has approximately 85 to 100 taps, all on 5/16" laterals. We have been fortunate to have a very tight system (after resolving minor leaks) so we generally pull 20 to 25 inches of vacuum on each pump. All our pumps are 12 volt and are hooked up to 12 volt deep cycle batteries. Prior to this past season, we brought the pumps and batteries in each night to keep the pumps from freezing and to charge the batteries. This past season, thanks to a fellow trader's suggestion, we used two 700 watt propane inverter generators to power battery chargers to keep the batteries fully charged at all times the pumps were running. (Our pumps are located such that we placed a generator between two locations and ran power cords to the battery chargers.) Our reason for continuing to use the batteries rather than connect the chargers directly to the pumps was to have a backup should a generator stop running during the day. The new setup worked great and saved a lot of work. We still bring in the pumps at night if it is going to freeze, but that is very easy because all pumps have banjo style camlock connections to make removal very easy. We also have all our lines setup so that when we remove a pump, we switch a valve and the sap can then flow directly into a storage tank using gravity.
Gary

[motowbrowne]

I run two 2088s and one 4008. Each has right around 90 taps on them.

No recirculation lines.

They pull between 15-22" though this year they seem to be on the lower end more than they used to be. The two 2088s are 3-4 seasons old, and they all run 24/7 during the season, unless it's gonna freeze solid for several days in a row.

My 270 taps are all on 3/16 with minimal elevation change. A few are even below the pumps. They all run into some short sections of 1" mainline with star and saddle fittings. I have been averaging .6gpt of syrup since I installed this setup and I'm very happy with it. I am sorta considering a pump and releaser setup though, just to be able to overcome leaks better and see how much sap I can get at 25"+.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

This is a good post. I might suggest that the moderators considering making it a "sticky" thread. There are a lot of us smaller producers using these or looking into it and several different configurations so it would be nice to have one thread to look at reviews and information. Here's ours, just started messing with these pumps this year.

1- 4048 Shurflo, S3 Controller on 145 taps connected to a 1" mainline that branches off to a 3/4" mainline. Total length of 1" mainline is 500' and total length of 3/4" mainline is 300'. 28 laterals (spin seal saddles) and 5/16" tubing. Probably 70/30 sugars to red maples in this area.
No recirc line
Only getting 13"-15" of vacuum on a good run. 8"-10" on marginal days. Don't really know why, the woods is tight. We verified by putting vacuum gauges on the end lines. They read the same as the controller does by the pump.
Deep cycle battery (biggest I could get at auto store), 100 W solar panel. We had to move the solar panel to get the sun best and once we did, we have not change out batteries although we do have a couple spares in case.

1- 4048 Shurflo, NO controller on 125 taps connected to a 1" mainline that is 100' long. 26 laterals (spin seal saddles), 5/16" tubing.
Probably 40/60 sugars vs. reds. These trees just haven't run that great this year despite being good in size and along a rock wall by the wall.
No recirc line
Only getting 8"-10" on marginal days, with no real good runs like our other bush.
Another large deep cycle, 100 W solar panel. Gets good sun, battery has yet to drop below 12v after several days of pumping.

I think we need to try a recirc line or maybe even a 4008 pump. Our issue could also be too much mainline?? I dunno.........

Should also add that we replaced diaphragms once on each pump so far this season. They were pumping fine and we took them apart (but did not see anything). Only reason we knew they were bad was because the vac at the end of the line was at 0. Note that it was still reading 10" on the controller by the pump but nothing on the end line.

[wmick]

..... I am sorta considering a pump and releaser setup though, just to be able to overcome leaks better and see how much sap I can get at 25"+.

I'm on the same path.. Get the vacuum up.
Based on this chart... I think it was from one of the proctor studies... It looks pretty linear... To much potential to ignore... I think.

22332

[motowbrowne]

I'm on the same path.. Get the vacuum up.
Based on this chart... I think it was from one of the proctor studies... It looks pretty linear... To much potential to ignore... I think.

22332

I wish I had more potential taps in this woods, but I don't. A pump and releaser setup would be pretty expensive per tap here because of how few taps there could be, but still I'm tempted. I kinda view my 3/16 installation as a stepping stone, not the ultimate solution.

[littleTapper]

1. What Specific Pump you are using
- Shutflo 4008. Wired to kick on when it warms up, shut off when it freezes with those handy little 12v controllers. Mounted in a plastic tote with controllers that also run fans to move air through when it's warm and turn on a light bulb when it's cold. On cold nights it stays right around 34 degrees in the tote.

2. Number of taps
- 43. mostly silvers. A few norways. 1.25" PVC (clear) manifold. Seven 5/16 lines run into the manifold. Valves for each line for easier diagnostics.

3. If you have a recirc line to pump
- Yes. This is a love/hate. It's a necessity. I'm pancake flat here so I need it to really get things moving and get decent vac/sap, but it's a great way to warm up the sap too much. The silvers really need vac and will shut down when the temperature starts to drop each day unless vac is pulling hard, then we keep getting sap until things freeze up. Probably more than tripled sap production compared to buckets on these trees. Really thinking about building a chilled "room" for my IBC tote with a cool-bot and window A/C to eliminate the warming sap problem.

4. Typical vacuum level you can maintain
- 22-26" with recirc and sap running well. 10" with no recirc (and then it doesn't pull in much sap at all).

[DrTimPerkins]

Get the vacuum up. Based on this chart... I think it was from one of the proctor studies... It looks pretty linear...

Yes, that is from https://mapleresearch.org/pub/m1007sapcollectionvacuumlevel/ Essentially sap yield is linear with vacuum pressure and is generally 5-7% increase in sap yield for each 1" Hg you pull (at the taphole, not at the pump). This has since been verified by studies at Cornell and Centre Acer.

[TonyL]

We run two, 4008 shurflo setups, one has 63 taps and the other 65. We've had one pump for two years, and installed the other in time for the 2021 season. On our older system we ran three, 3/16" lines into a pvc manifold, and from there to the shurflo. This system is actually on the wall inside our sugar house, and dumps right into the collection tank. We're running all 3/16" lines and drops on this setup, with around 30' elevation change from the end of the lines down to the sugar house. It consistently produces around 25" of vacuum, with no recirculation.
The new system also utilizes all 3/16 currently, but the initial install used a 3/4" mainline around 300' long, with the 3/16 laterals feeding into it. Lots of natural drop on this system also, all the way to the pump, which we placed in a plastic tote. When we fired it up, we could not achieve over 13" of vacuum. No leaks, as it would hold vacuum after shutting off. After some head scratching we abandoned the mainline and ran individual 3/16 lines on all four runs right down to the pump, with another pvc manifold. Vacuum jumped to 25".

I built controllers for both systems, using 12 volt power supplies to drive the pumps through relays, temp sensors, timers, and motorized ball valves to drain the lines and purge the pumps during freezing temps.
Being on vacuum saved our season this year, due to the crazy weather making for a quick season.

[Bullet]

When discussing vacuum lines people refer to "recirculation". What does that mean?

[motowbrowne]

When discussing vacuum lines people refer to "recirculation". What does that mean?

The diaphragms in these pumps will pull a deeper vacuum when they are wet with sap than when they're pumping air. If you don't use a recirculation line, during some conditions you'll see the pump pulling 18-23" and then it'll run out of sap and drop to 12-15" or less. Then it'll get more sap and pull bigger numbers again. The cure is to run a line into the sap tank and back in to the vacuum side of the pump. Think a lateral going into the sap tank. You need some kind of valve (vice grips work) so you can adjust how much sap is recirculating.