Did I crack the sap hole, or...?

[stimyg]

I feel like I go through a version of this every year, to some degree. But here's a new twist:

We put in most of our 40+ taps the last couple days. The trees were frozen, which I know can be tricky, but I had a brand new canadian drill bit designed for frozen trees, and I (think) my kids and I were pretty careful about not tapping the spiles in too hard with our small, plastic-head spile hammer.

We put in about 30 of these plastic bucket spouts: https://bascommaple.com/products/spplhh?_pos=44&_sid=333edf09f&_ss=r . And 10 of the zap bac spouts onto drop lines: https://bascommaple.com/products/spmicrob?_pos=1&_sid=722dd15df&_ss=r

Then today got warm, and nearly every tree with the bucket spouts had sap running down the bark, and very little in the buckets! While the zap back spouts all seemed to be working fine.

Now, the zap bac's are a bit softer, and when I was (lightly) hammering them in, it felt like there was plenty of give and there was little chance of cracking the wood. Whereas the plastic bucket spouts are harder material. So, that could be it.

But then I pulled a few of the plastic bucket spouts, and it turned out the little lip area where the sap goes in, towards the tip, still had ice in it, even though the sap was otherwise copiously running down the tree. Once I cleared that ice and reinserted the tap, it seemed to work fine, although I'll have to wait a day or so for the tree bark to dry to really tell. Which leaves me with a few questions:

~ Is that's what's been happening to me all these years?!? That in fact I haven't been cracking the wood, but those spouts have gotten clogged with ice at the tip?

~ Is this going to happen to me every night during a freeze, or is it only because this is the first real run and the trees were still frozen, and so the last thing to defrost?

~ Should I be using a different bucket spout with a different design, without that lip? (B/c that's another possible reason the zap bac's seemed to work fine - they didn't have that interior lip, and so it seems like ice wouldn't get caught there as easily.)

~ Or... no, did I crack it, cause I'm an idiot who never learns a lesson?

Thanks ahead of time for your thoughts...

[DrTimPerkins]

Some leaking of spouts shortly after they are put in is normal. Sap on the outside of the spout can't find its way in, so there will be some leakage with ANY spout until that dries out. However that particular style of plastic bucket spouts seems to be a frequent a cause of complaints of leaking and falling out. Some people have luck with them -- others do not. If you continue to have problems, switch to a different type of spout or live with it this season and replace them next year.

[stimyg]

Thanks, Tim. Any suggestion on bucket spouts with less complaints? Also, how bad practice is it to replace a spout partway through the season?

[berkshires]

I feel like I go through a version of this every year, to some degree. But here's a new twist:

We put in most of our 40+ taps the last couple days. The trees were frozen, which I know can be tricky, but I had a brand new canadian drill bit designed for frozen trees, and I (think) my kids and I were pretty careful about not tapping the spiles in too hard with our small, plastic-head spile hammer.

We put in about 30 of these plastic bucket spouts: https://bascommaple.com/products/spplhh?_pos=44&_sid=333edf09f&_ss=r . And 10 of the zap bac spouts onto drop lines: https://bascommaple.com/products/spmicrob?_pos=1&_sid=722dd15df&_ss=r

Then today got warm, and nearly every tree with the bucket spouts had sap running down the bark, and very little in the buckets! While the zap back spouts all seemed to be working fine.

Now, the zap bac's are a bit softer, and when I was (lightly) hammering them in, it felt like there was plenty of give and there was little chance of cracking the wood. Whereas the plastic bucket spouts are harder material. So, that could be it.

But then I pulled a few of the plastic bucket spouts, and it turned out the little lip area where the sap goes in, towards the tip, still had ice in it, even though the sap was otherwise copiously running down the tree. Once I cleared that ice and reinserted the tap, it seemed to work fine, although I'll have to wait a day or so for the tree bark to dry to really tell. Which leaves me with a few questions:

~ Is that's what's been happening to me all these years?!? That in fact I haven't been cracking the wood, but those spouts have gotten clogged with ice at the tip?

~ Is this going to happen to me every night during a freeze, or is it only because this is the first real run and the trees were still frozen, and so the last thing to defrost?

~ Should I be using a different bucket spout with a different design, without that lip? (B/c that's another possible reason the zap bac's seemed to work fine - they didn't have that interior lip, and so it seems like ice wouldn't get caught there as easily.)

~ Or... no, did I crack it, cause I'm an idiot who never learns a lesson?

Thanks ahead of time for your thoughts...

One thing about those blue plastic bucket spouts - they need to be seated a bit further than you'd think. They have a little collar at the end of the spile, and that collar usually sits inside a 5/16 hole, not against the end of it the way you might think. Go have another look, and give them a little tap if the collar is not in the hole. They may actually not be seated all the way.

Gabe

[DairyVet]

I have the same style spile, and have similar problems with leakage. I figured I just screwed up seating them, which I suppose may be true for both of us... I was planning on trying a different style next year anyway, but Tim’s comment pretty well sealed the deal.

[Big_Eddy]

You may also find part way through the season, if you have a hard freeze and then a thaw, some spiles will loosen up and start leaking (again). Even had some pull right out of the tree while dumping the pail. But a quick tap with the hammer will reseat them.
And there is always one (or two) that just won't seal. All season, that tree will always have a wet stain on the bark. We have stopped worrying about it - as long as most of the sap ends up in the pail, a little bit down the bark won't hurt anything.

[stimyg]

Great, thanks for the thoughts. So - does anyone have any recommendations for bucket spouts they do like?

[Pdiamond]

I like the stainless steel ones from Smoky Lake. nice thing is at the end of the year I can boil them clean, let them air dry and seal them in a zip lock bag for next season. A little pricey but you can use them year after year.