Are Taps too Low??

[Leckster]

Anyone know if there is a problem with taping a tree too low?

I got aggressive this year and tapped some new trees that were lower in grade than the others (down in a shallow gully for lack of a better word). However, I did not go high enough on the trees in the gully to get out to the next tree. In order to get out I need to place a tap at about 1 1/2 to 2 feet from the ground to maintain a minimal slope of the tubing. I have read that you should tap at least 3 feet from the ground. So I have the following questions:

1. Can I tap a tree as low as 1 1/2 feet (16 inches) from the ground
2. Can I pull the taps from the trees I tapped in the Gully and raise them higher.
3. If 16 inches off the ground is too low then can I pull the taps from the trees in the gully and put them higher up 7 feet to about 11 feet. (what will happen this season if there is an opened drill hole on 1 side of the tree and tap in the other??)

Thanks

[jrgagne99]

Making a new hole is creating two wounds. Not advised for long term health.

In similar situation-- When I find a tree with virtual vacuum leaks, I pull the tap and cut my losses. I usually don't re-drill.

[DrTimPerkins]

Some sap will likely make it from the low taps up the line, but not as much as there would be if grade were maintained. The sap sitting in the line going up creates some backpressure that the tree stem pressure has to overcome to get up the hill.

If you relocate the taps higher on the tree to correct the grade, the lower taphole will still run sap, so the amount of sap you get from the tree will likely be 1/2 or less, and it will cause a second wound in the tree -- not a great idea if the tree isn't large enough to support two taps. Don't even think about putting a plug in the lower hole to prevent that....bad idea for tree healing.

The other issue is that the lower tree might actually suck sap out of the line when it refreezes (during the uptake phase). It will pull liquid anywhere it can, whether it is from the ground or from the tubing lines. That is why we have droplines. However since your grade is opposite normal, sap can go back into the tree. Maybe pull the spouts and put CV spouts in those trees to try to reduce that problem.

I'd leave it alone, consider it a life lesson in maple production, and try not to repeat it next year. At best you'll likely get about 1/2 the sap production from those trees.

[Jeff E]

Another long term issue with having tubing really low is that critters really go after it.
It seems like if the line is in front of their noses, they want to chew it.

One of the questions I think you were asking is there a sap penalty tapping low or high on a stem.
My experience is there is not, it is better to run your lines with good slope, high enough to stay out of snow and animal chew zones, and tap based on that.
The lines are nice and uniform in slope and elevation, while the ground is not. Therefore taps can range from 4 to 7 feet in my woods.

[Leckster]

Thanks for all the great responses. As it is right now I do have a downward slope (pitch) on the line. I do have a drop from the tap hole to the line of about 8 inches so backing up and back pressure is not an issue, I hope (yes that puts the line at about 12" off the ground and I did not think about the critters but will fix that next year). Lucky for me that the trees are on a hillside so as I continue down the hill the line raises up higher and higher so it is not very long before it is above 4 feet.

I was just concerned that a tap hole at 16" or 20" from the ground would not yield SAP.

And the ideas I had about re-tapping higher this season seems to be a bad idea and just live with it - lesson learned.

Thanks Again!!

[DrTimPerkins]

I was just concerned that a tap hole at 16" or 20" from the ground would not yield SAP.

2", 20", 20 ft...doesn't really matter much -- the sap moves throughout the stem from the ground to the tops of the branches There will be somewhat less head pressure higher up, so sap yield may be slightly slower that high, but sugar content increases as you move up the stem, so things balance out.

[therealtreehugger]

Sugar content increases as the height of your tap increases??? How much? Is it worth getting a ladder out and tapping at the top of the ladder next year? I only have taps in my backyard, I am not a big sugarer.

[maple flats]

NO, not a good idea!

[DrTimPerkins]

Sugar content increases as the height of your tap increases??? How much? Is it worth getting a ladder out and tapping at the top of the ladder next year?

Sugar content increases SLIGHTLY as you go up (closer to the source of sugar...the tree crown). However sap yield goes down SLIGHTLY as you go up (head pressure is lower as you go higher). Overall they balance out, so the amount of syrup made would be about the same. Don't think you're going to get 8 Brix sap by tapping 7-10 ft up. It'll be a few tenths at most. Not worth tapping on a ladder.

Similarly, tapping higher up with 3/16" tubing and a long dropline will gain you a SMALL amount of vacuum, but you lose a corresponding amount of head pressure by doing that, so the end result is probably a small loss (due to frictional influences in the tubing).

[dadtkm]

After making a lot of searches and revisiting post about tapping trees to see if tapping practices have changed any , I didn't see anything about a recommended tap height. I have always tried to stay about waist height. After 25 years of making syrup , I have trees still giving up a lot of sap. I move taps up and down every year and am wondering how high is high?

[blissville maples]

Sugar content increases SLIGHTLY as you go up (closer to the source of sugar...the tree crown). However sap yield goes down SLIGHTLY as you go up (head pressure is lower as you go higher). Overall they balance out, so the amount of syrup made would be about the same. Don't think you're going to get 8 Brix sap by tapping 7-10 ft up. It'll be a few tenths at most. Not worth tapping on a ladder.

Similarly, tapping higher up with 3/16" tubing and a long dropline will gain you a SMALL amount of vacuum, but you lose a corresponding amount of head pressure by doing that, so the end result is probably a small loss (due to frictional influences in the tubing).

Lol 8 brix! good thing you specified only tenths....I can see extension ladders up in the trees!! Tap the leaf stems! Haha that's funny

[blissville maples]

Another long term issue with having tubing really low is that critters really go after it.
It seems like if the line is in front of their noses, they want to chew it.

One of the questions I think you were asking is there a sap penalty tapping low or high on a stem.
My experience is there is not, it is better to run your lines with good slope, high enough to stay out of snow and animal chew zones, and tap based on that.
The lines are nice and uniform in slope and elevation, while the ground is not. Therefore taps can range from 4 to 7 feet in my woods.

When I first started tapping I had all my lines as low as possible because that's the biggest portion of the tree more head pressure. I now have all my lines as high as I can get them so they are away from the critters! So I will reiterate what he said