newbee

[MR Electrician]

hi kids im new to this forum .
im jems klein's father .
i gave him his brains and his good look's too.
he keeps on telling me about stuff on this maple trader so i figure i need to throw me hat into the pile.


about me ;
im an electrician i work in the oilfields of fort mc murrey alberta i fly in for 20 days and home for 8 . so jemsy has to run the bush this year.
as you can see from his pix we built the new evaporator this year ,then jems ran new mainline in the bush .we should have a good year this year,were adding an additional 100 taps .and were having a good old fashioned snowy winter.so look forward to hearing from me as i love to toss in my two cents.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Welcome, you must be pretty talented to be able to build an autodrawoff.

[TapME]

welcome Mr Electrician look forward to hearing your 2 cents.

[MR Electrician]

Welcome, you must be pretty talented to be able to build an autodrawoff.

ok so what is an auto draw off
1 electronic thermometer
1 contactor
1switch
1 light
all in one box
1 electic valve

please my son can build this
give me something hard.
something that will be worth a good headache

[MR Electrician]

welcome Mr Electrician look forward to hearing your 2 cents.

the two cents i can afford .
its my wife kids and theyre bad habits that keep me working.

[Lwood]

First off Welcome!

Second comes my 2 cents worth:

While it is true that an auto drawoff is quite simple to build. There are a few things that must be considered when building your own.

1) Your "thermometer" (Temperature Controller or Process Controller) must be accutate to at least .1 degree F. Even if the digital readout displays to .1 deg F it does not mean that is the accuracy of the unit.

2) Your Process controller must be able to accept readings from an RTD Thermocouple. A RTD Thermocouple is the most accurate type that you can purchase at a reasonable price. Type K and J thermocouples are not responsive enough to control the temperatures and hold the range that is needed for syrup production. Unless you plan on finishing the syrup somwhere else than in the evaporator.

3) Your Solenoid Valve must be both food safe and be able to handle the constant heat of the boiling syrup. The materials that comprise the body of the valve are only a small portion of the valve.

While I agree that the Marcland Controllers are too expensive, ( I built my own rather than put out that much money) Marcland controllers are top quality units with years of research and development behind them.

[MR Electrician]

First off Welcome!

Second comes my 2 cents worth:

While it is true that an auto drawoff is quite simple to build. There are a few things that must be considered when building your own.

1) Your "thermometer" (Temperature Controller or Process Controller) must be accutate to at least .1 degree F. Even if the digital readout displays to .1 deg F it does not mean that is the accuracy of the unit.

2) Your Process controller must be able to accept readings from an RTD Thermocouple. A RTD Thermocouple is the most accurate type that you can purchase at a reasonable price. Type K and J thermocouples are not responsive enough to control the temperatures and hold the range that is needed for syrup production. Unless you plan on finishing the syrup somwhere else than in the evaporator.

3) Your Solenoid Valve must be both food safe and be able to handle the constant heat of the boiling syrup. The materials that comprise the body of the valve are only a small portion of the valve.

While I agree that the Marcland Controllers are too expensive, ( I built my own rather than put out that much money) Marcland controllers are top quality units with years of research and development behind them.

ok the same controller that marcland uses is listed on e bay for $35.00 plus shipping
comes with thermocouple
as for the valve yep its the expensive part of the system.stainless steel will take the heat.

[Lwood]

Every controllor that I've seen in a Marcland is a Fugi. If you can buy a new Fugi temperature controller with an RTD thermocouple on ebay for 35 dollars. Jump on it. But I'd look into it a little more, I can't believe that that is. Also, I believe you missed the part about the body of the valve only being a small portion of the valve. Stainless will take the heat alone. Most valves are not completely made of stainless. It's the internal components that are the concern. The seals are the biggest issue are they Food Safe? What is the temp rating of the seal material? What is the Plunger made of? Is it plated? if so with what? If it's also coming from Ebay is it new or used? Do you trust the random Ebay seller to know what has been through a used valve? And are you prepared to eat syrup that has been in that valve? Sorry Not me.

[MR Electrician]

Every controllor that I've seen in a Marcland is a Fugi. If you can buy a new Fugi temperature controller with an RTD thermocouple on ebay for 35 dollars. Jump on it. But I'd look into it a little more, I can't believe that that is. Also, I believe you missed the part about the body of the valve only being a small portion of the valve. Stainless will take the heat alone. Most valves are not completely made of stainless. It's the internal components that are the concern. The seals are the biggest issue are they Food Safe? What is the temp rating of the seal material? What is the Plunger made of? Is it plated? if so with what? If it's also coming from Ebay is it new or used? Do you trust the random Ebay seller to know what has been through a used valve? And are you prepared to eat syrup that has been in that valve? Sorry Not me.

ok good points as we are all aware we are making an edible product .
however if you use a steam controller valve as marcland is then its not a problem as the gate in the valve is stainless steel.

ok so heres one
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mini-Temperature-Thermocouple-control-controller_W0QQitemZ200187843618QQihZ010QQcategory Z50974QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayph otohosting

and an other
http://cgi.ebay.ca/PID-TEMPERATURE-CONTROLLER-FURNACE-OVEN-KILN-Universal_W0QQitemZ150200338853QQihZ005QQcategoryZ 42899QQcmdZViewItem
there are more but its dinner time and im a hungry man

[royalmaple]

Mr. Jems-

I gotta tell you I am pi$$ing my pants with your signature. Might be a long day but really hit me.
I'm crying here.

[Russell Lampron]

Welcome to the "Trader" MR. I too had a good laugh at your signature. A statement that is very true indeed.

It is great that you and your son are into this maple hobby/addiction. It is always good when young people are making syrup. It keeps them off of the streets and they make a rewarding product that they can be very proud of.

Russ

[Lwood]

While both of the controllers will work for the application. Niether of them is, as you said before, "The same controller that marcland uses." They are both no name generic controllers. Which may work perfectly fine or may not. They both support RTD thermocouples, so if I were building one for myself it would be worth a shot but I would not say that they are the same quality or as reliable as a Fuji unit. ... Would you agree with that?
Also the one that comes with the thermocouple, comes with a K type thermocouple that in a range of 0 - 200 deg Celsius is only required to be accurate to 1.5 degrees Celisus. That is fine if you are going to finish somewhere other than the evaporator. But you will be running a risk of being light (not quite done) or heavy (over done) if you finish your syrup on the evaporator. A RTD (pt100) thermocouple has a range for accuracy requirements. At 0 deg Celsius it is required to be within .15 deg Celsius. At 200 deg Celsius it is required to be within .55 deg Celsius. As the temp gets higher, the acceptable error range gets wider. But at 200 deg Celsius you are well over whre you are finishing your syrup.
As for valves Marclands is so simple it is not even funny. Anyone that has ever taken one of them apart should agree with that. He has them made, it is not a valve that is purchased off the shelf somewhere.

So in short, Building a Automatic Drawoff IS quite simple. But it is NOT simply a matter of going onto Ebay and buying any process controller, thermocouple and solenoid valve. Then you wire it all up and say that you now have a Marcland drawoff.

[MR Electrician]

i have plenty controllers available to me that will do the job as for the valve well i work in the oil fields so when i return i will ask the engineers for some names and suggestions.
the whole idea is to automate the system for as cheap as possible

we were quoted for float valves $90.00 through a supplier

i bought one locally for $35 .
last week i bought 5 float valves on e bay for $4.00 each
i guess the point is no one builds anything anymore they all assemble
so if you have the smarts and the skills then you can save a lot of bucks by assembling your own.
and get the last laugh as to how much you saved by doing it yourself

james and i built our own evaporator it took a week of our time but we did it
and he learned a lot from doing it.
this lesson was worth thousands of dollars to me and him and i enjoyed every minute of it.
i wish my dad was here to see it all.
although sometimes it felt as though he was standing there beside me .

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Guess I don't know enough about one to build it since I have never studied one or I would instead of investing money into a Marcland one later on.

[MR Electrician]

well dont worry we will build one for next year.
then the operation will be allmost totally automatic .
now if i could just find a way to load nthe fire wood and bottle automatically.
wow just sit back and nature.:rolleyes:

[maplekid]

whenn its all automated it takes the fun out of it.

[MR Electrician]

no then i get to sit in my easy chair and watch my kids do the rest
theres nothing better to me than the satisfaction of watching my kids acheive or build something .
especialy when we spent the time in engineering it all out together .
now thats my fun time.

[Mike]

Mr E, Youv've brought a lot of life back to these post.....Welcome.....To bad you weren't closer to Vt, Id like to see your operation........

[MR Electrician]

Mr E, Youv've brought a lot of life back to these post.....Welcome.....To bad you weren't closer to Vt, Id like to see your operation........

well were growing a little more every year this year were still boiling outdoors but on a new evaporator.
were right now at 250 taps and hope to add another 100 this year

after all this is a hobby and it is paying for itself.

besides the three hrs i spent in the bush today is the best exercise an old fatso like me can get.
:razz: