Tapping on the north side of tree and the south side

[ir3333]

Has anybody put a tap on the north side as well as the south side and compared the results
over the season?

[maple flats]

I never compared them, not that scientific. I do however have about 25% of my taps on each side, not specifically directly north, south, east or west, but sort of in those general directions.
If you favored all south exposures this year, at some point in the future all should be northerly.
I believe most of the difference will just be the timing of best sap flow. South will tend to produce earlier, north later in the season and east/west in between.

[ecolbeck]

I suspect there would be very little difference within a single tree. However, stands of trees on the north or south sides of a hill would probably behave quite differently.

[Pdiamond]

Its been my personal experience with buckets and bags when tapping that there is no difference in the amount of sap produced from the trees, On good days both sides produced well on slow days not so well. Now my trees have all been sugar maples both in the open and in the woods.

[DrTimPerkins]

Has anybody put a tap on the north side as well as the south side and compared the results over the season?

This has been done numerous times in scientific studies. In some years there may be a difference (in hot years the north side is better, in cold years the south side is better), however in most studies compared average yields over several years, the results showed no difference due to aspect. The best approach, as suggested by others already, is to spread the tapping around the entire tapping zone over time to avoid cluster tapping.

[ir3333]

i've read so many articles
over a root
under a branch
below 3 feet flows more, above 3 feet flows less
north side won't flow as much as the south
south flows early, north flows late
west side will flow better than the east
But i have never seen any actual numbers..i'm going to do some experimenting this year with north and south taps on the same trees.

[DrTimPerkins]

MY REPLIES IN CAPS AFTER EACH OF THESE STATEMENTS

over a root NO NEED. SAP WILL FLOW IN ALL SAPWOOD.
under a branch SAME AS ABOVE.
below 3 feet flows more, above 3 feet flows less. THE DIFFERENCE IS SLIGHT.
north side won't flow as much as the south WRONG. OVER MANY YEARS THEY AVERAGE THE SAME.
south flows early, north flows late THIS IS OFTEN CORRECT, BUT SOUTH FLOW STOPS EARLIER N THE SEASON, NORTH CONTINUES LATER
west side will flow better than the east NO EVIDENCE THAT THIS IS TRUE.

But i have never seen any actual numbers..i'm going to do some experimenting this year with north and south taps on the same trees.
IF YOU DECIDE TO DO THIS, DO IT FOR AT LEAST 3-5 YRS TO ACCOUNT FOR SEASONAL DIFFERENCES BEFORE MAKING ANY CONCLUSIONS.

[Ghost]

How long will it take for a 55 gallon drum of frozen sap to melt?

[ir3333]

if it is outside and follows the freeze ..thaw cycles of the weather a month plus....

[Ghost]

So I think I just learned I tapped too early

[goose52]

How long will it take for a 55 gallon drum of frozen sap to melt?

a few years back i swore that i would avoid frozen sap barrels and hold off on tapping early. sometimes i can wait & sometimes i just can't!! this year's temps look very good for an early run. snow levels are way down, and my grandkids have an early spring break so if the weatherman is correct (yeah, i know) i will be tapping early and fighting ice in the barrels AGAIN! i usually insulate my barrels with snow but i will leave a frozen barrel out in the sun and whack at the ice with a hatchet and put the ice in the boiler pan... yes it slows the boil and yes a lot of ppl discard ice but if the whole barrel is ice the sugar is there. if the run gets crazy i will turn the barrel upside down and it will empty. if the run is slow i have something to use to keep the boil going until the run kicks in again. not real efficient but at my age i have more time & firewood than i do coherent thoughts. just my two bits (put that in there to substantiate my age claim).

[ennismaple]

I completely agree with Dr Tim. In the long run you are better off tapping on all faces of the trees to ensure you get good sapwood. An equal distribution of taps in all directions of the compass will yield more consistent results and eliminate some of the year to year impacts of how spring breaks.

[berkshires]

I completely agree with Dr Tim. In the long run you are better off tapping on all faces of the trees to ensure you get good sapwood. An equal distribution of taps in all directions of the compass will yield more consistent results and eliminate some of the year to year impacts of how spring breaks.

And another thing: don't be an idiot (like I was) and jump around all over the tree from year to year, looking for roots to tap over, and big limbs to tap under. It makes finding old tapholes a real PITA. Just start in one place (or on opposite sides on two-tap trees) and work your way around the tree methodically year after year. I do this now on new trees, but on trees I've tapped before I have to keep jumping around to work around the old tap holes.

GO

[ennismaple]

And another thing: don't be an idiot (like I was) and jump around all over the tree from year to year, looking for roots to tap over, and big limbs to tap under. It makes finding old tapholes a real PITA. Just start in one place (or on opposite sides on two-tap trees) and work your way around the tree methodically year after year. I do this now on new trees, but on trees I've tapped before I have to keep jumping around to work around the old tap holes.

GO A pattern is definitely a good idea and works on a small scale. On a large scale you pick the first "good" spot on the tree that you see, drill it, hammer and go. We tend to follow roughly the same travel pattern from year to year so the tendency is to always tap on the same face of the tree as you move forward. I make a point to pick the back side, far side or below the lateral line on trees rather than doing the same thing from tree to tree. It's amazing how from year to year you tend to look at the same spot on trees and have to move over and up/down from there to find good wood.

[DrTimPerkins]

It's amazing how from year to year you tend to look at the same spot on trees and have to move over and up/down from there to find good wood.

That certainly is the tendency. I think it happens even more on buckets/bags than on tubing because people are having to go to the spot several times during the season, so naturally they'll pick a spot that's easy to get in and out of with a full bucket.

[berkshires]

A pattern is definitely a good idea and works on a small scale. On a large scale you pick the first "good" spot on the tree that you see, drill it, hammer and go. We tend to follow roughly the same travel pattern from year to year so the tendency is to always tap on the same face of the tree as you move forward. I make a point to pick the back side, far side or below the lateral line on trees rather than doing the same thing from tree to tree. It's amazing how from year to year you tend to look at the same spot on trees and have to move over and up/down from there to find good wood.

Interesting. Sorry to post bad advice for people working on a large scale. I'm surprised. I would have guessed that even on a large scale it would be more efficient to locate last year's tap in five seconds (usually very easy to spot) and then find the next good wood clockwise around the tree. I guess after you've tapped as many trees as you guys have you can instantly see where even five and ten year old tap scars are, and work between them.

GO

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Certainly nothing wrong with having a pattern whether large or small scale. I personally don't worry too much about it. They key is having drop lines that are long enough. After pre-making 36" drops this year for our new bush, I think next year I will make them in the woods. We have some large trees, maybe low to the ground and 2'+ diameter that could use 5' drops to reach everywhere. Just another way to help find good wood.
Another way to help is raise the laterals up in years when you have a good amount of snow. That's the norm for some of us but could certainly help others that go back and forth with snowpack.

[ennismaple]

Interesting. Sorry to post bad advice for people working on a large scale. I'm surprised. I would have guessed that even on a large scale it would be more efficient to locate last year's tap in five seconds (usually very easy to spot) and then find the next good wood clockwise around the tree. I guess after you've tapped as many trees as you guys have you can instantly see where even five and ten year old tap scars are, and work between them.

GO LOL no worries. We have trees that have been tapped for 70 years (and over-tapped for many of those) so old scars are everywhere! Not to diminish the importance of good tapping practices - but when I'm looking to drill 100 taps an hour there's no time to debate between multiple spots. I pick one that's laterally and vertically spaced from a "recent" taphole and if there's good clean sapwood in the shavings I'm happy. If I come out with stained wood, dead wood or hit a hollow I'll re-drill somewhere else.

This is why droplines cannot be too long. We used to make them 28" and you quickly run out of tapping band above the lateral line. At 36" long and by sometimes tapping below the lateral you can always find good sapwood. For some of our monster trees we'll custom cut a 48" or longer dropline so we can get all the way around those ancient trees.

[ir3333]

our season is nearly over and i did indeed tap the north side on some trees.Throughout the season i found my north taps
dripped about 25% of the tap on the south, east or west side of the same tree.Not worth it for me but will help if
you are trying to get as much as possible!