Prescribed fire in a sugarbush

[DocsMapleSyrup]

I would like to perform a prescribed fire in my sugarbush as we did a select cut last year. My question is: Can a prescribed burn be done in a sugarbush without hurting the tubing? Our tubing is approximately 30" off the ground.

[maple flats]

I never heard of a prescribed burn in a sugarbush.

[bill m]

What do you hope to accomplish with a prescribed burn? I also have never heard of one being done in a sugarbush and in my opinion yes your tubing will suffer some damage.

[Someclown]

What exactly are you burning? A brush pile, or a section of bush.

[Michael Greer]

Might as well take down the tubing and throw it right into the fire.

[JoeJ]

I have always heard that sugar maples are easily damaged by even small fires. There was a ground fire started by kids in part of the sugar woods I bought in 2003 and there were quite a few sugar maples that sustained lower trunk damage. They survived but it has been almost 20 years and the scars are still not completely grown over.

Joe

[DocsMapleSyrup]

The hope for a prescribed burn would be to clean off the leaf litter allowing the ground to be warmed and have natural regeneration of the forest floor with forbes and legumes. I manage my property for maple, bees, and deer. Having a prescribed fire provides a bioligical desert under the canopy to regenerate and provide a lot of food for deer and small animals.

[amasonry]

From what I have read maple do not like fire. Indians in Canada did control burns pre settlers to promote grass for deer and promote growth in nut and fruit trees. the maples in Canada came after the Indians stopped the burns. that is when maples filed in the large fields.

[Super Sapper]

As the leaf litter breaks down it helps condition and fertilize the soil.

[JoeJ]

Chad, In my opinion your plan is way overestimating the benefits of the prescribed burn. By burning the leaf litter, you will be destroying the natural fertilizer and more importantly, destroying any young maple regeneration. The deer are the last thing I would want in my maple woods. I have way too many deer around my woods and thy are browsing all the small maples that should be growing the next generation of the sugar bush

Joe

[BAP]

Also, leaf litter helps control erosion amongst the forest. Plus is home to many beneficial microbes and small creatures.

[buckeye gold]

I agree I would never burn a hardwood forest, especially on a slope. Nothing good about it. Pines are a different story as they acidify the soil and burning helps, but the hardwood forest needs that ground cover. Cut some area s thin and let light in and then you'll get your bid explosion of growth

[DrTimPerkins]

Maple trees are fairly susceptible to fire damage until they develop thick bark. The tubing system would be toast. :D

[bigschuss]

The hope for a prescribed burn would be to clean off the leaf litter allowing the ground to be warmed and have natural regeneration of the forest floor with forbes and legumes. I manage my property for maple, bees, and deer. Having a prescribed fire provides a bioligical desert under the canopy to regenerate and provide a lot of food for deer and small animals.

Have you been watching Dr. Woods Growing Deer TV? I also manage for whitetail...I totally hear what you're trying to do. If you have a mature sugarbush, I'll assume you have a biological desert not because of the leaf litter but because of your maple canopy. You don't have much sunlight hitting the forest floor. I'd suggest managing for deer elsewhere on your property, and managing for maple syrup in the sugar bush.

Are you managing for whitetails for hunting, or just because you like to see deer? I'll assume the former...you don't often hear of a mature sugar bush being a good place to hunt deer, unless you really thin it out to create a high stem count amongst your mature maples. Also, not sure what kind of legumes you're going to get coming up in the forest unless you plant something?

So with that said, you can actually use your sugarbush to your advantage specifically because it IS a deer desert. Creating good deer habitat adjacent to and up wind of a sugarbush is a great way to always be sure there are no deer downwind of you. You can create you access and egress trails to your stands through the maples so you can reduce your negative deer encounters on your way into and out of your stands. And if you have a mature sugar maple stand that butts up against some seriously managed deer habitat...young, thick, high stem count, maybe a food plot...you also now have an edge, and deer love edge habitat of any kind.

So yes, it's tempting to manage every square inch of land for whitetails. But sometimes the best management practice is create deer deserts and then use those to your advantage.

[buckeye gold]

bigschuss makes a good point. My woods is much like this. The front is my Maple bush and the back is oak dominate. I cut about 50% of the high grade oak out and it exploded, but I only cut a few oaks out of my Maple section and you can see all the way through it, as it has a very low stem density. The deer travel through it some but a main trail runs right along the transition. I don't deer hunt but I have guys who do hunt my place. They have their stands right along this transition line and they kill deer there every year.

[TapTapTap]

Here's my 2 cents:

1. Assuming that you have a forestry management plan, then check with your forestry professional about what you're planning. If you don't have a forestry management plan (most common with woods over about 50 acres), then hire a forestry consultant and get one done. Another option is to check with your county forester or other state agency. They can be very helpful.

2. Check with the state fish and wildlife department. Here in Vermont, we have biology experts that will come out to walk your property with you to help advise you on making your land good for wildlife habitat and eliminating invasive species. And it could be free like in Vermont.

3. Call your local fire department before burning. They probably require a permit and want to know your plan for controlling the fire. If the conditions are not suitable for burning they will decline to issue a permit.

4. Check with your insurance company. What if the fire gets out of control and burns someone else's property, or your house? Are you covered?

Ken

[maple flats]

Back about 15 years ago I got in touch with a state forester who walked my woods with me. He asked hundreds of questions on what I wanted in my woods. He then wrote up a suggested Forest Stewardship plan and had me study it and make suggestions for edits, I returned it to him. This process went back and forth 2x, then he wrote up a final plan, which became my official management plan. The cost "ZERO" ! I'm in New York State and the plan was for a small 15 acre parcel.
A friend of mine had the same thing done, also using a state forester on a 200+ acre piece, same price, ZERO!
Check your state, you may have a county or state forester who does this type of service, all on your tax dollars. Best place to start.

[DocsMapleSyrup]

Thanks for all the replies. My situation is that my sugarbush sits on the only flatter land on my property. The property is 43 acres that is surrounded by a 9,000 acre state park. All of the area is old growth forest. The flatter land is being tapped, I have a forestry management plan but up here, the foresters don't know anything about managing a sugarbush. The property border to the North is where there was approximately 5 acres of open farm land that now has a couple of food plots and about 3 acres of white spruce. The deer move out of the state park toward my food plots; however, now that I tubed my woods after having a select cut done over the winter, the deer movement has changed dramatically. I do hunt but only for trophy bucks, about 30 acres of land is gorges and ravines with a drop from my sugar shack to the bottom of the ravines of about 120'. Not much maple in those ravines either. Just trying to maximize my woods for maple, deer, and pollinators. Yes, I do follow Dr. Woods on Growing Deer TV and he is an avid believer in prescribed fire. Since it sounds like maples are sensitive to some fire, I won't ponder this anymore. My canopy in the sugarbush is opened up and I will work on the slopes to promote deer health and growth. Thanks for the replies.

Bigschuss: Unfortunately, the sugarbush is upwind of the area the deer come from and the food plots are upwind of the sugarbush. Not a great layout for ingress and egress. Because of the tubing, the deer aren't getting out to the food plots until well after dark.

[bigschuss]

Thanks for all the replies. My situation is that my sugarbush sits on the only flatter land on my property. The property is 43 acres that is surrounded by a 9,000 acre state park. All of the area is old growth forest. The flatter land is being tapped, I have a forestry management plan but up here, the foresters don't know anything about managing a sugarbush. The property border to the North is where there was approximately 5 acres of open farm land that now has a couple of food plots and about 3 acres of white spruce. The deer move out of the state park toward my food plots; however, now that I tubed my woods after having a select cut done over the winter, the deer movement has changed dramatically. I do hunt but only for trophy bucks, about 30 acres of land is gorges and ravines with a drop from my sugar shack to the bottom of the ravines of about 120'. Not much maple in those ravines either. Just trying to maximize my woods for maple, deer, and pollinators. Yes, I do follow Dr. Woods on Growing Deer TV and he is an avid believer in prescribed fire. Since it sounds like maples are sensitive to some fire, I won't ponder this anymore. My canopy in the sugarbush is opened up and I will work on the slopes to promote deer health and growth. Thanks for the replies.

Bigschuss: Unfortunately, the sugarbush is upwind of the area the deer come from and the food plots are upwind of the sugarbush. Not a great layout for ingress and egress. Because of the tubing, the deer aren't getting out to the food plots until well after dark.

Aah, I see. Yes, that sounds a bit tricky. I actually have something similar...a nice spruce bedding area upwind of my sugar bush...which is upwind of my core deer habitat. I use buckets though, so the deer have no problem moving through the maples.

Good luck. I guess you could ask what you like better....collecting sap on lines or nice deer movements. No question for me. I know lines on 300 taps saves you a ton of energy collecting sap. But if messed up my deer hunting I wouldn't even think about going back to bags or buckets and reducing my tap count.

I watch Dr. Woods also. It's the only show I'll watch. Would love to buy a small chunk in the Ozarks when I retire.

[BAP]

Keep your lines pushed up on the trees during the off season as much as you can and the deer will pass through them without problems. I keep mine pushed up 6-7 feet in the air and my bush is always full of deer tracks. Also, make sure you don’t cut all the evergreen trees, deer like them in the winter time to seek shelter under.

[DrTimPerkins]

Deer have no problem with maple tubing. They'll go under, over or around it without any problem (except perhaps an occasional test chew to see if it's edible). Moose will do the same, unless they're in a real hurry.

[tcross]

i have lines anywhere from knee high to above my head... and in between. i have a whole lot of deer going through the bush. the 2 cameras, i keep out there all year long, are constantly getting pics. the deer use my main line paths as a "road" more or less. In fact, tubing can help you shoot deer..my wife got her first deer this past year right as one was ducking under a main line.

[ennismaple]

The deer will adapt to the tubing fairly quickly . They easily go under, over and around the lines throughout our woods. There are several sections we know will always have lateral lines chewed off because a deer gnaws on it at some point during the year. We fix them and move on.

We have several food plots in our sugar bush in old pastures and an old section of hay field. The deer filter in and out of it from the cedar swamps but bucks don't tend to spend time in them during daylight hours. They have dozens of trails through the sugar bush and there are several bedding areas on hilltops right beside maples we are tapping. They'll stand there and watch me drive past on the tractor. We also hunt turkey and bear in the sugar bush. Natural regeneration happens when you get caterpillar infestations or when trees get blown over because it opens up the canopy and more sunlight gets to the forest floor. Selective logging of non maples or co-dominant maples can also accomplish this.