Drill bits for tapping

[ir3333]

What is your preference...Auger, Brad point or standard bit?
Also i bought new taps this year from CDL and they recommend a 5/16" bit but it is too small!
I get a nice fit with 11/32" ?

[buckeye gold]

What do you mean by too small. The spout only goes in a short ways. Most will recommend a regular tapping bit, but an Erwin auger bit does a good job

[DrTimPerkins]

A standard maple tapping bit that is sharp works best. Regular wood bits aren't designed for drilling into frozen wood or able to move out the shavings quickly.
Bits should be used for 2,000-2,500 taps and either resharpened (with a machine that is set correctly) or replaced. You should always match the bit to the spout to ensure you have the correct size. 5/16" to 5/16", 1/4" to 1/4", 19/64 to 19/64", etc. We've used the Lapierre bits for several years now.

[maple flats]

Bite the bullet and buy an official tapping bit in 5/16 if that is the designated size of the taps you bought. Then drill the holes in and out non stop in one motion. When done tapping, save that bit for next year. It is far better than the alternatives mentioned above. Also, when you set the tap, either use an official tapping hammer, or a "ladies hammer (light weight)" or I use the flat side jaw on a pair of 7" lineman's pliers. Which ever you use, tap lightly and listen for the sound to change. It will sound solid when it's properly set. Do not use a framing hammer or the back of a hatchet, they will set the tap too far in and might crack the bark. It's best to use a cordless drill, have it well charged, and drill at full speed if it has different speeds.
Improper tapping is often the reason for poor sap flow.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

As Dr. Perkins eluded to, it depends on the spout used. You want a tight fit. If CDL told you to use a 5/16” bit based on the tap you used, that’s what I would do. Saying it is too small leads me to believe you might trying to drive it too deep.

[ir3333]

I understand you guys questioning the 5/16" tap not fitting the 5/16" hole...trust me
I have drilled holes with 3 different 5/16" bits and the taps will not go in 1/8".
These new 30 degree taps are 3/8" at the shoulder and taper down to a bit over 5/16" at the drip end.
Using an 11/32" drill bit they go in about an inch and are too tight to go any further so that's fine.
My friend has an auger bit that has a taper perfectly matching the taper in his spiles ..but I have
not seen anything in any of the manufacturers catalogues as nicely and purposely made.
How deep should they go? Where in the sapwood is the flow highest?

[Pdiamond]

You should mark you drill bits at 2 inches. If you have a very large tree with thick bark maybe pull pull off some of it to get to the tree. I have used regular bits and I have to agree with all the others on this one, get a tapping bit. They are worth the money.

[ir3333]

.....but where do I get an 11/32 tapping bit?
And how deep should the tap go?

[BAP]

Check the bit you have and make sure it is actually a 5/16” bit that you think it is and not a 19/64” bit.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

What CDL spouts are you using?

[johnallin]

.....but where do I get an 11/32 tapping bit?
And how deep should the tap go?

The CDL spout is tapered, I suspect you're driving it in too far.
Your 11/32 is only 31 thousandths (.0310) of an inch over 5/16, less than the thickness of a dime..

As suggested, buy a 5/16 tapping bit and stop pounding so hard.
Unless you're on vac a small leak won't hurt you and will likely seal up on its own.

[DrTimPerkins]

CDL sells 1/4", 19/64" and 5/16" spouts and drill bits. Due to the very low taper of most modern "small" spouts, they will fit snugly into the hole, but should seat properly with a light hammer or tapping hammer. Sound and feel will dictate when to stop. Going in too far will reduce yield.

[Sugarmaker]

I understand you guys questioning the 5/16" tap not fitting the 5/16" hole...trust me
I have drilled holes with 3 different 5/16" bits and the taps will not go in 1/8".
These new 30 degree taps are 3/8" at the shoulder and taper down to a bit over 5/16" at the drip end.
Using an 11/32" drill bit they go in about an inch and are too tight to go any further so that's fine.
My friend has an auger bit that has a taper perfectly matching the taper in his spiles ..but I have
not seen anything in any of the manufacturers catalogues as nicely and purposely made.
How deep should they go? Where in the sapwood is the flow highest?

Ok we are trusting you!
We are assuming you have tapped thousands of taps in you life. Maybe even one of the largest producers of maple syrup in the world!
We are here to learn, Teach us about the 5/16 spout only going into the 5/16 hole 1/8 of a inch. We need pictures!

Also I have not been on here much and am old and old school. But would be interested in looking at the geometry fit of the 30 degree tap ( I just didnt know about them yet). Who is the mfg of them? Do you like them?
So the drip end is the end where the sap comes out into the air?
We tap about 2 inches deep. Our trees are like me OLD!
Regards,
Chris

[DrTimPerkins]

There is always the possibility that you got a misidentified bag of spouts, or a wrongly labeled drill bit.

[ir3333]

21868

installed in 5/16" hole ( 5/16" = .312)
small end .322
shoulder .375
Fit is perfect in an 11/32" hole. (.343 )
This is my 3rd year so not much experience

[DrTimPerkins]

Have you tried it in fresh wood, or only in dried wood?

[ir3333]

tx..i'll see how that works

[johnallin]

21868

installed in 5/16" hole ( 5/16" = .312)
small end .322
shoulder .375
Fit is perfect in an 11/32" hole. (.343 )
This is my 3rd year so not much experience

ir333, that table in your pic's made with some really nice Quartersawn white oak

[ir3333]

yes..we have another one and a complete bedroom suite made with quarter sawn oak too.Got the dining room table years
ago and restored it.The previous owner had cut it down into a Coffee table so I made a new pedestal section for it.When i had
my sawmill i quarter sawed some oak and tucked it away...beautiful stuff you can't get anymore!
I like old things that have stood the test of time. I like new things too..but not until they get old. lol

[Openwater]

You should always match the bit to the spout to ensure you have the correct size. 5/16" to 5/16", 1/4" to 1/4", 19/64 to 19/64", etc.

Are spout sizes designated based on the size of the tube barb or the stem that goes into the tree? I got some "5/16" white Max Flow spouts and it was suggested by Roth's to use the 19/64" drill bit. I also have some "3/16" spouts which seem to have the same size stem that goes into the tree and, therefore, should also work using the 19/64" drill bit; so I don't think that a 3/16 drill bit would work to tap a designated "3/16" tap, correct?
Just trying to learn.
Thanks.

[ir3333]

good question.The taps i was using required a 19/64" drill which makes a nice small hole.
The spouts on them were at a 90 degree angle and hit my buckets if i drilled at an angle
and that is why i went to the 30 degree taps..

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

The 30 degree spouts and signature spouts require a 5/16" bit. So I think you have the correct bit. The maxflow spouts require a 19/64" bit for all maxflow spouts. They are the exception to matching up bit to spout. We have used the 5/16" maxflows with 19/64" tapping bit for years with good success. Go find a maple tree and try it out. I suspect that it will act a lot different.

[DrTimPerkins]

Are spout sizes designated based on the size of the tube barb or the stem that goes into the tree?

The spout size (typically 1/4", 19/64", 5/16", 7/16") represents the end that goes into the tree. The barb size indicates the size of tubing to be used (5/16" or 3/16"). So, for example, you can have a 5/16" spout for 3/16" tubing.

[Openwater]

So I assume if a shop advertises just a "5/16" spout, it would mean that you should use a 5/16 drill bit and attach 5/16 tubing to it unless they specify otherwise.
I just put in some of the 5/16 CDL White Health spouts into trees last weekend using the 19/64" bit. (It's the only proper tapping bit I have) The spouts didn't go in very far, but seemed to make a tight seal. Definitely more spout sticking out of the tree than in the hole; not sure how they're flowing yet.

[ir3333]

So...how far in the tree should the tap go?

[tcross]

1.5" to a 2" hole works good. i'd guess only a 1/4" of the spout sticks in the tree? if more... not much!

[ir3333]

2 brand new bits
top hole 5/16"
bottom 11/32"21869

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

The 5/16" tap is deep enough, maybe on the shallow end but OK. The 11/32" hole is definitely too deep.

[maple flats]

So...how far in the tree should the tap go?
To answer that, use the bit specified for that tap, then drill into the tree 1.5-2" max. The as I said before, gently tap on it using a tapping hammer, or a light plastic hammer, or a ladies hammer, or the flat side of the jaw on a pair of 7" lineman's pliers. Tap gently, until the sound changes. At that point it is in the correct amount. Don't even try to measure, just go by sound. It will sound solid when It's set properly. Do not hit it hard and do not use a heavy hammer, like a 16 oz or heavier. A 7-8 oz is fine.

[tcross]

5/16 tap looks like its pounded in the appropriate amount. they don't go in too far.

[DrTimPerkins]

2 brand new bits
top hole 5/16"
bottom 11/32"

Top spout in your photo looks about right. Bottom spout is in too deep. Your sap yield from spouts like that will be considerably lower than it should be.

See the attached photo. Top is WAY too deep, middle is partially too deep, bottom is correct seating. A paper on effects of overseating spouts is located at: https://mapleresearch.org/pub/overdrive2020/

A video on proper tapping practices is at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86WYX2QNk08&t=54s

21874

[ir3333]

Tx guys.That is so helpful..especially the video Tim. I think i have been putting my taps in too deep!

[Father & Son]

I understand you guys questioning the 5/16" tap not fitting the 5/16" hole...trust me
I have drilled holes with 3 different 5/16" bits and the taps will not go in 1/8".
These new 30 degree taps are 3/8" at the shoulder and taper down to a bit over 5/16" at the drip end.
Using an 11/32" drill bit they go in about an inch and are too tight to go any further so that's fine.
My friend has an auger bit that has a taper perfectly matching the taper in his spiles ..but I have
not seen anything in any of the manufacturers catalogues as nicely and purposely made.
How deep should they go? Where in the sapwood is the flow highest?

When you’re saying a 30 degree tap do you mean the angle between the spile head and the tubing barb because I have never heard of a 30 degree tap.

After looking at the CDL catalog now I see what you are talking about. Never heard them called 30 degree spiles, probably because I don’t use that style spile.

[ir3333]

Spout would be angled down from horizontal about 30 degrees.
With the tap tapered and the drill cylindrical there should be sap flow
from all the wood exposed by the drill except where the tap taper
hits wood.However the tests show that tiny area reduces some flow.

[DrTimPerkins]

Spout would be angled down from horizontal about 30 degrees.
With the tap tapered and the drill cylindrical there should be sap flow
from all the wood exposed by the drill except where the tap taper
hits wood.However the tests show that tiny area reduces some flow.

You have a source for that? Tapping at a 30 deg angle (from horizontal) seems extreme.

[ir3333]

the tap is at a 90 to the tree. Check my picture and you'll see the spout angles down 30 degrees from horizontal.
I probably worded that wrong.

[Gord]

As far as drills go, when I first started I was using a regular drill bit. I saw the video above, and since I sharpen my own drills anyhow, I changed the angle from 120 degrees to 90 degrees. Still doesn't have the same shank characteristics, but at 90 degrees, it definitely cuts faster and in one motion, in and out. And rarely does it leave any shavings in the hole.

[ir3333]

do you just back cut to reach 90? I think my bits are 135?

[Gord]

Yes. First I grind the face 45 degrees from the center on both sides. Then I roll it back so the heel is lower than the cutting edge of the face. Photo is from the video Tim posted.

21876

[maple flats]

Your terminology needs some clarification ir3333, that tap is a straight tap with a barb at 30 degrees. Most taps have the barb at 90 degrees or near 90. Some have a barb straight out.
The tap you set in the white board , the top picture is about right.

[ir3333]

Tx.. this is my 3rd year.
..still newbie.

[Z/MAN]

Over the years I heard of people breaking a drill bit in a tree and could not understand how. Well I still don't know how but I broke one in a tree last year. It was a Canadian bit that I had for quite a few years and it still drilled fine. I replaced it with a Leader bit and didn't think it worked as well. This year I bought another Canadian bit and wow there is no comparison between the two. I am sold on the Canadian bit!