Looking for Opinions on Auto Defoamer Dosing Device

[TapTapTap]

I saw this in the Proctor Maple Youtube on the Organic Defoamer Study. It got me thinking that the device could have several potential advantages from better quality syrup to smoother operations resulting in more focus on the syrup pan. I am wood-fired and have no hood which makes managing the foam ups more challenging. I also find that the flue pan foam ups are on the opposite side of the draw-off so I'm constantly racing around the rig. I know they're pricey but it seems like my operation would benefit from one.

Thanks for any replies.

Ken

[JoeJ]

Ken, Are you certified organic? I think that the type of defoamer you use would influence which automatic dispenser that you should purchase. I use Atmos defoamer in my operation. As you know, it is a very effective and reliable defoamer. I start each boil adding 8 drops in my steam away and 8 drops in the flue pan float box and then repeat the same 8 drops every 5 minutes using a timer. After experimenting with the number of drops from 5 to 8 every 5 minutes, I settled on the 8 drops. About 5 year ago, wanting to simplify the defoamer thing, I bought a Foam Fighter timed automatic dispenser. I used it for about 5 boils and was not pleased with the results. I was never sure that the 8 drops were put into the pan and found the amount of foam varying widely. I finally went back to hand dispencing the 8 drops. The fancy $1,000. dispencers in the Proctor video would probably give you more reliable results. However, there is defoamer storage issues with any types of these automatic dispencers as I found out with the Foam Fighter.

Joe

[Sunday Rock Maple]

We do if by hand with a timer (15 drops in the back pan every ten minutes) but I've heard that freezing is a concern with automatic dispensers unless your shanty is heated.

[upsmapleman]

Sunrise metal shop sells one that is a fair price. I have one and it woks pretty good. It runs on a timer and you can set it to open a valve every so often. Lets say you set it for every 10 mins to open for 1 second. You can play with it to see how many drops are released in a second ect. I have a hood so it sits on top of that with a tube hanging down to drop defoamer in sap. 2 downsides that i experienced. 1 sometimes I forget to shut it off when I'm done and it keeps on working till gone. Not a big problem as it is usually almost empty when I'm done. Second atmos defoamer which I use will harden up when cold. I usually put mine in a heated building when done. If I forget i will need to add some by hand until the other turns back to liquid which happens fairly soon sitting on a warm hood.

[heus]

I find it easiest to just use the dispensing cup which hangs over the inside edge of the flue pan. As soon as foam hits it, it knocks it back down immediately.

[DrTimPerkins]

We've used both the Lapierre and CDL automatic defoamers.
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In organic syrup production, the choices of defoamers is limited, and those that are available are not nearly as effective as synthetic defoamers (not even going to discuss other types of defoamers -- cream, milk, etc.). Over-dosing is common with the drip-style defoamers, especially later in the season. We would often see an oil-slick on the surface of the syrup. To some extent I think organic syrup production trained that segment of the market to like the flavor of oil in maple syrup. The automatic defoamers work especially well to keep the amount of oil used to a minimum. They add oil at a controllable rate that is easily adjusted, but can compensate immediately when foaming becomes an issue. In using these defoamers, we dial back the addition rate to that which barely controls the foam, but can be confident that if foaming becomes excessive, the sensor in the backpan will detect the foam and add enough to bring it under control. This also serves to keep the amount of oil used to the minimum rate necessary.

In addition to this, Dr. Abby has done research evaluating organic defoamers. We've switched to one called Trans-O 580, which works considerably better (at least for us) in controlling the foam than organic oils.

Finally, as a really simple solution to deal with front-pan foaming, we've had good luck using a 1/4" SS mesh screen laid across the top of the partitions. The rightmost (draw-off) partition in the below photo has a screen in it.
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A larger screen covering the front half of the front pan shown here. Cheap and easy....if you try it...just make sure it is SS.
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[TapTapTap]

Thank you for the excellent responses. And yes, I am organic - starting this year. I just completed my application to NOFA. I have already purchased the Trans O-580 as my defoamer.

Dr. Tim - Thank you for the idea of 1/4" x 1/4" SS screen over the front pan. Would a screen over the flue pan be a good idea too since I don't have a hood?

[DrTimPerkins]

Would a screen over the flue pan be a good idea too since I don't have a hood?

Haven't tried it there. It might.

We worked on a spray defoamer system for several years (spray nozzles mounted above the flue pan recirculating hot sap/concentrate). Worked well and reduced the need for defoamer tremendously. The main issue was the recirculated sap was so hot it would cavitate in the pump, and so required a REALLY expensive pump to make work. Any amount of pressure in the pump dropped the vapor pressure so air would cavitate in the pump and slow the defoaming (and create a heck of a racket). We dropped the effort after a while, but it sure worked well (with the expensive pump).

[sshanny]

Dr. Tim where are you sourcing your screen from?

[TapTapTap]

I saw some 1/2" x 18 ga expanded stainless available on-line in 3'x3' sheets.
https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/stainless-steel/0-5-hole-x-18-ga-stainless-expanded-304-standard/pid/22564#

Queen City Steel in Burlington had 13 gauge but only 4x8 sheet for $375.

[bill m]

For stainless screen try McNichols. They have a place in Massachusetts and New Jersey. As I remember they had fair prices on stainless screen.

[maple flats]

I use a traditional type oil dripper. I bought mine from Glen Goodrich about 3-4 years ago. I use Atmos defoamer. The dripper does need warming. My dripper is mounted in the flue pan hood so it drops the drips at the same area as the incoming concentrate comes in. I use a 60 watt light bulb in a clamp light about 5-6" away from the dispenser to keep it warm. Running 10-12% concentrate (boil rate about 75 gph) I set it to drop a drip about one every 45-55 seconds. It does take some fine tuning to get the drip rate where I want it, but I only need to adjust it initially, then once more as the evaporator/and hood get fully up to temperature. I do recheck after 2 or 3 fuelings to verify, rarely need to adjust again, but on occasions I do need to.

[TapTapTap]

For stainless screen try McNichols. They have a place in Massachusetts and New Jersey. As I remember they had fair prices on stainless screen.

I have used McNichols several times. They specialize in metal grating and related products. I don't typically think of them working directly with consumers but I assume the internet has changed all of that.

[DrTimPerkins]

Our SS screen (wire cloth) was sourced from McMaster Carr https://www.mcmaster.com/screens/stainless-steel-wire-cloth-9/

[johnallin]

Reviving an older thread as I'm looking for some info on an auto dispenser/doser with a probe, not interested in a drip type.

Foam-ups in the flu pan can into the steam hood gutter and mess up my condensate, adding defoamer thru the steam hood door is hit and miss at best for me.
I also can't hear for stink, so listening for the boil to drop doesn't work, by the time I catch it, it's too late.
Add a few drops though and the pan takes off sounding like a freight train.

I'm looking for the consistency the probe on these units offers...kind of like the H2O modulating draw off I have.
Ken (Tap Tap Tap) are you still satisfied with yours?
Thanks - John