Collection System

[MyDeereMaple]

I'm just getting back into sugaring as a hobby. Last year I used one gallon milk jugs for collection of sap. I bought some more property this year that could eventually add a couple hundred more taps. I'm easing my way into this so I will probably only tap about another 40-50 on this property this year. As a result, I am looking at investing in a better collection system. I did a search on this site for the "sap sacks" to see if anyone had reported on how these work. I didn't get to much to review. I was leaning towards these over the "used buckets" to simplify the cleaning process. Another option I was leaning towards was tubing to 5 gallon pails. My thinking was if I ever went to the tubing technique I'd already have invested in the right taps. However, then I'm back to the cleaning of buckets and eventually tubing. Not trying to skimp on the work. Just trying to do the most practical thing and keep it a fun hobby. Any recommendations?

[royalmaple]

I like using the sap sacks, I don't run thousands of them. I try not to hang anything but tubing. But I have say 50-75 that I usually put out and they are very light weight, toss them in the spring. Squirrels can chew the bottom of them and mess up a run, but just carry some extra bags. No lead to worry about, no cleaning. And you can carry a bunch in a small amount of space. The holders pack up well in the spring into a tote.

[Uncle Tucker]

I don't use them but I hear they work grate. John Burton told me to watch out for the wind with frozen sap in the bags, they bang aganst the trees and make pin holes in them. You cant tell execpt for the side of the bags are wet wnen the sap is runing.

What I did the first year at my new house was run tubing into totes. I ran the 5/16 tubing to where I was going to put my main lines and put the totes there. It saved a lot of time and money when I ran the main lines.

[maplehound]

I always liked the king sap bags. they where very easy to empty and had very few troubles with them except for a few seems splitting open. However if money is an issue then check some of your local grocery stores, bakery dept. they often get icing in 2 gallon buckets that just get thrown out. I saved a mess of them when I first started and they worked great. I put a small hole near the top for the spile to go througth ( either metal or plastic spiles) and I also saved the lids to put on them. The icing in them was mostly sugar and washed out easily with hot water.

[markcasper]

I used to run 1000+ of the sap bags. They are great if you have NO wildlife. (Hint: the DNR is much more sympathetic to the turkeys, bear, squirrels etc..than they are to a sugarmaker.)

They are a pain when they get ice in them and more so when a run happens that wasn't forecast and then it turns cold abruptly and your caught with your shorts down and don't get them gathered.

The wind is especially hard on bags with little sap in them, and more so if you have a north facing bush. Its a real gamble when a cold front is coming with lots of wind. Do you gather and then lose alot of them from wind damage? or do you leave them ungathered so the weight of the sap stabalizes them, then to have a massive ice block to deal with?

Its not unusual to replace 1/4-1/2 of the bags over the course of the season due to "leakers". If you have wild turkey and bear around, FORGET them! You will be disappointed.

They give outstanding sap quality! The sap can get 4 times as old as tubing sap and you still make light syrup.

If you do use them and you replace leakers, stuff the new bag inside of the old one to get double protection. The sap wont touch the old bag, but it acts as a buffer and gives them more protection from getting a leak again.

[MyDeereMaple]

I had read somewhere else on the site, that you can buy the sap sacks in a bulk quantity of 250 for about $0.20 each. In order to have the extra I may consider buying the 250 upfront. Any idea where the best price is for buying these holders and sacks?

[royalmaple]

You can get them from andersonsmaplesyrup.com

I got a case a year or so ago, and I think at the time they were 20 cents range. Might have ended up being closer to .25each after you factor in shipping etc. I can't remember really.

[markcasper]

You can get them from andersons. I'm a little more than an hours drive from them.
I was able to buy them direct from the factory, i.e. General Plastics Extrusion, Prescott, Wis up until last year. Then Andersons and them got together, it was found out that lots of producers were buying factory direct and bypassing the equipment dealers.

You know the rest of the story.....noone is able to buy factory direct b/c that would eliminate the middlemans profit.
I argued with the plant manager at the factory and he finally said that Andersons and them have an agreement. He told me that if I wanted 100 cases/1 pallet, he would deal with me. What am I going to do with 25,000 bags? Especially since I have switched mostly to tubing.
When I bought factory direct, they were .12 each. Through Andersons they are .20 in boxes of 250, clear or light blue. I prefer the clear.

You can also buy them from Sugar Bush Supply in Michigan. You all know the story....alot of the dealers scratch each others back.

So if you are getting them shipped...Michigan is alot closer than Wis.
I was pretty nerved up, since a number of years ago this plastic company was sending samples of bags direct to producers, including myself. So we were ok to get them started, but now we are no good because we are only the little guy.

[markcasper]

My Deere Maple: How many sap bag holders are you interested in?

[MyDeereMaple]

As noted in may original post, I am looking to ease may way into this, so I was looking at buying two cases. I seen on Sugarbush Supply they sell cheaper in cases of twenty-five. So I thought I'd start with two cases this year. Once I can get a handle on my production,storage,boiling,etc. I will increase the quantity of taps accordingly.

[markcasper]

My deer maple, I would sell you 2 boxes (50) @$3.00 each plus shipping. They are used, in excellent condition. Drop me a PM if interested.

[MyDeereMaple]

Markcasper; thanks for the offer and I will consider. However I am on the ropes on exactly what I am going to do. From reading this and several other posts, I want to take another look at the trees I intend on tapping this season and maybe run some tubing to totes or a couple main lines to larger totes. A couple more quick questions:

1) I read somewhere to run wire with the tubing to avoid sags. Is this necessary for every case?
2) How do you empty the totes to transport tank? I am assuming you'd dip a pail in and dump in the transport tank.

I'd like to learn a little more about these methods before I commit.

[jemsklein]

well you don't need to run wire with your 5/16th line unlees you have a long distance to run and to empty the totes there is a 2" ball valve on the bottom of that you just open and poor out

[royalmaple]

12v Bildge pumps work well for pumping sap out of totes.

[TapME]

Royalmaple; What kind of system do you us to bring electricity to the pump?

[royalmaple]

I've done several. Jump the wires to my 4-wheeler battery. Strap a battery to my 4-wheeler(deep cell marine style), and I've left the battery at the tank.

I was going to cut a standard cigarette lighter adaptor and splice the wires to the bildge pump so I could just plug it into the outlet on my wheeler.

Also I've made up a trailer hitch wire plug to the pump and plugged it into my trailer lights so when I am collecting buckets and bags, I just dump them into the tote and it pumps up into a larger tank in my van or truck. I also had a float switch in the tote so the pump would only run when there was sap in the tote.

THey are simple an inexpensive.

[TapME]

Thanks Matt. you can get the pump at wall-mart, correct. I may need the # of the person that has buckets and totes in Scarborough.

[royalmaple]

Yup, they got rule pumps there at wally's.

I'll send you his info, I'll try to find it. Barrel Guy is his business. What are you looking to get? I might have some.

[TapME]

Thinking of two 30 to 50 gallon barrels, and about 50 5 gal plastic buckets with lids, at a reasonable price.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

You can get 50 gallon rubbermaid containers at Wally World for less than $ 20 each and they are much easier to keep clean and clean than a barrel, weigh a ton less and stack inside each other at the end of the season and keep the sap as good or better than anything else I have ever seen.

[TapME]

Brandon, I've been looking at the totes as a place to deposit sap at the end of the line. Thanks Lou

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I was in Walmart today and checked the prices and the 50 gallon Rubbermaid totes with lids were $ 12.83. There Sterlite are cheaper and may be fine, but I know the rubbermaids are really good and pretty much stay bacteria free the entire season, even the dark blue ones.

Pretty good deal for 50 gallons of storage for less than $ 13.

[Fred Henderson]

I don't think that I can buy a plastic barrel for 13 bucks.

[jemsklein]

well i whent to are local barrel guy he has 50 gallon barrels for $10 they just need to be cleaned

[Sugarmaker]

I choose to try the totes for same reasons Brandon recommends, stack-able for storage, easy to clean, easy to get pump in / out. I am using the sterlite 39 gallon which is a real nice tote but they are about double the cost. I hope they last twice as long:)


Chris

[jemsklein]

what do these totes look like because the one i have is 275 gallon and i have not heard of smaller ones

[Dave Y]

jemsklien,
The tote you have is for storage of fruit juice and the like it most likely came from a food plant. The totes Surgarmaker and WVM are talking about are plastic storage containers meant for home storage. If you check out Royalmaples pics you will see what the are as he has some plumbed to tubing.

[sweetwoodmaple]

Our local food inspector tends to frown on anything that isn't made for food.

Totes or barrels that have had food in them are fine.

Chris - can you comment about Ray Kenny's take on this (I have to get inspected this spring before I can sell product, but that's another story)

All this isn't important if you only sell to family and friends.

Have fun all!

[Father & Son]

Brian,
Good to see you back on the trader. Noticed your website had be parked and didn't know if you were still sugaring. The NWPAMA meeting is the 19th if you are interested.

Jim

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Brian,

Great to see ya back. Thought you had dropped off of the face of the earth! Just kidding! Give us an update with everything that is going on with you. I know you are probably choming at the bit.

Long time no hear!

[MR Electrician]

we had to go with barrels
theres too many deer and racoons on my land they tend to drink out of the totes and generally make a mess
today we set up our barrels at the end of our main line 6 barrels in a line
when the first is full the next one fills up and so on.
i figure we can now store 4600 littres of sap that should make for a good weekends boiling.:rolleyes:

[Sugarmaker]

Brian,
Nice to see you are back.
You should not have any problem getting inspected.
The totes I am using are not marked food grade. These are the 39 gallon Sterilite brand Ultra style.

Chris

[sweetwoodmaple]

Thanks for the welcome back everyone.

Took off 2007 as we have a new addition to the family, plus staring a new job in March.

Had to dust off the equipment, but the Maple bug bit me a few weeks ago and I'm off and running. Adding 150 tops and a Delaval 75 this year.

Also residing the sugarhouse and adding a larger 5' wide door in front of the evaporator so I can fire easier.

I have a fan waiting for a woodsaver if I get the chance to make the plenum sheet metal.

I'm off topic, so talk to you all later!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Brian,

Glad to see ya back. After not hearing from you in 2007, I was afraid you had given it up totally.

Congrats on the new addition to the family and the new addition in taps!

Good luck this year!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

MR,

I doubt anything will be drinking out of totes with lids snapped tight on them. You drill a hole the same size as the tubing or mainline in the lid on on the top of one of the walls and push it down into the hole and it is nice and snug.

[MR Electrician]

last year we had 2 55 gallon barrels with open tops down in the creek bed standing on a skid.
one day i found them both dumped over:mad:
from that day on we added a ratchet strap around the barrels and a tree to hold them up . still found the lid lifted up and allmost off one day .
if they want in they will get in

hey maybe our canadian deer are just plain smarter than american deer.
you never know :rolleyes:
could be.:confused: :eek:

[Jim Brown]

Hi Brian; Looking forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks in Blooming Valley,
Hope all is well
Jim

[thenewguy]

Mr. Electrican, sounds like bear to me.....

[MR Electrician]

Mr. Electrican, sounds like bear to me.....

yea thats what i thought but we havent seen any for a while around here .
plus the dogs usually go nuts when theres a bear within a mile of the place.

we used to have some black bears but my dogs chased them away(3 huskeys)well were going to find out this year if it is bear as we moved the barrels to the back on the property about 2 thousand feet away
were figuring that the 100' drop will introduce some natural vacuume in the line once the sap starts flowing.:rolleyes:

[thenewguy]

i don't think a deer of coon would knock over a full 45 gallon barrel of sap... Investing in one of those wildlife cameras that are motion sensitive would be
neat to setup around the barrells just to see what comes around...

[TapME]

Have you ever seen King Coon? We had one that was getting into our trash, first he would lift the 3x6 door and get in and start to open the lids on the cans, when done he would open the lid again to leave. Last time he checked out the other end of a shell. Must have gone 25#'s or better.

[Dave Y]

TapMe'
I would be skinnin that fella.

[MR Electrician]

Have you ever seen King Coon? We had one that was getting into our trash, first he would lift the 3x6 door and get in and start to open the lids on the cans, when done he would open the lid again to leave. Last time he checked out the other end of a shell. Must have gone 25#'s or better.

well coons arent the problem so much i have a husky luke he kills every coon he sees.
i dont know how he does it but he used to bring home a fresh kill every knight.
and i mean big coons.havent seen any signs of them lately
he must have got them all.:eek: