Considering Ventless or Infrared Heaters -- How do you heat your shack?

[Polish Wizard]

My sugar shack is a 10x10 addition at the back of a roughly 16x16 old pony barn.
The structure was made with Amish rough-cut lumber, and has spaces between each of the exterior boards that I assume was designed to allow fresh air for the animals -- so obviously not draft free.

For my own comfort I'd like to add some type of heat -- like propane ventless heater or infrared system.

I plan on buying a new arch/evaporator next year, and that should be very efficient and not allowing heat to escape other than via steam rising through the open cupola.
An additional benefit of a shack heating system would be keeping stored sap from freezing, as well as aid in operating an anticipated RO Bucket.

With my on-line research I noticed ventless propane heaters have been used in ice fishing shacks.
While I have electric available in the barn I don't believe these ventless heaters have a fan included for circulating heat.
I don't know if the separation of the arch from the rest of the barn will make an infrared system workable.

I'd rather not consider a wood stove because it would eat up too much space while maintaining clearances to combustibles, and I'd rather not use my cut wood for that purpose.

How do you folks provide heat to your shacks?
I'd love to hear any experiences or ideas -- both good and bad results, and how you think my structure layout may impact your suggestions.

[Masnart]

Doesn't the ambient air temperature make a difference in evaporation rate? I was kicked out of the house for setting off CO detectors while boiling and found it's a faster boil out in the cold with a hot burner/rolling boil.

[Pdiamond]

Is there a way you can place a board over the openings to cover them. that will conserve some of your heat. The heaters in ice shanties do not have fans as far as I know. I have a 12 x 16 sugar house and it takes a little while to warm up and I don't have any open spaces.

[Polish Wizard]

Is there a way you can place a board over the openings to cover them.

I believe what you are describing is called board and batten where thinner strips are installed to cover the void space between the vertical wall boards.
You'll see many of the folks on this site have posted pictures of their sugar houses built in this style.
While it's certainly possible it hasn't been my first plan of action.
I'm not expecting to work in my T-shirt, but it would be nice to have a way to help bring up the temps and maybe defrost my sap storage barrel if and when it freezes -- especially at the bottom where the drain valve is installed on the side of the 55-gallon drum.

[VTnewguy]

If you have electric, how about a electric torpedo heater? I wouldn't be too worried about frozen sap in a tank. If it's that cold the sap isn't running anyhow.

[MISugarDaddy]

When we built our current sugarhouse in 2013, we installed a ventless heater to keep temps above freezing at night. Our heater had a fan to circulate the heat. The problem we had with the heater was that it caused a considerable amount of condensation in the sugarhouse as it was tightly built and insulated. We have since replaced the heater with a vented heater that has a fan and have eliminated the condensation problem when the sugarhouse is closed up at night. In fact, the vented heater helps to eliminate humidity in the sugarhouse when it is closed up.
Gary

[maple flats]

I have a 16x24 board and batten sugarhouse, but about 1/4 of the batten are not on yet. Also, I'd need to seal up spaces at the top plate. On the gable ends there is a 1" space between each 1x8 purlin, then another space, on the other walls there is a 2" space, between the trusses (every 2'). In addition I have just steel on the purlins, no plywood so I get loads of heat loss. When boiling that is not an issue, it gets warm enough but not hot in there unless the outside temp climbs to 65F or higher. I only heat my RO storage closet.
That being said, if you get Infrared heaters, aimed down I think you will feel warm. I've been in large warehouses with such heating and it's surprising how warm it feels. Those heaters don't heat the air, just solid surfaces (and you).

[18mile]

I have used ventless and also have condensation. For the little amount of time I need it there is no major problem. I mostly worry about freezing the ro

[TapTapTap]

I wouldn't be too worried about frozen sap in a tank. If it's that cold the sap isn't running anyhow.

I agree that shouldn't be a concern. For a heater do an IR. And cover up those gaps with batten boards. Most anything else would be a waste, especially if it's windy out.

[VT_K9]

If you don't want to batten the outside of the building you could put up strips on the inside to help keep heat in the area where you are. We did that in the old sugarhouse. When we put the RO area in we had a trash can style propane heater to help. Did not do much for circulation but it helped.

In the new sugarhouse we changed over to oil....never would have thought how cold it got inside. Not to mention a very large concrete floor. We installed a modine style propane heater. Definitely could have gone larger. We put it where the majority of the work is done on the evaporator. Without a doubt it make a difference in our comfort and I think it may improve the evaporator's performance a smidgeon. Maybe not but it helps in my mind. We build and insulated an RO room. We use a vented propane heater. I did not want to rely on a sensor failure to shut down the heater if O2 got too low or a failure of the sensor because it just went bad and a fail safe would stop the heater from working. I prefer and would recommend a vented heater for a good installation. In an ice shanty or small space a smaller propane/electric honey comb type heater would be nice.

Mike

[Polish Wizard]

I have a 60,000 btu propane torpedo heater that I tried in my 32x48 garage at the beginning of winter while last-minute grinding and brush painting a mower deck for family.
Even with a gable vent fan running, lots of air from the other gable vent as well as at the eaves, and the garage door propped open on a 2x4 I still felt "weird" working in the warmth of the heater.
I know those aren't nearly as efficient as "ventless" heaters (not to mention noisy), so I'm a bit reluctant to try the torpedo in the very vented shack/barn.

I found https://www.mrheater.com/30-000-btu-vent-free-radiant-propane-heater.html and oddly it has an optional fan to somehow blow warm air from the radiant plates.
Seems sorta against the little I understand about radiant vs convection, but it must work or the manufacturer wouldn't offer it.
The price can be as low as $179.99 at a place roughly 20 miles from home.
Nice thing about this unit --- I can either hang it permanently or leave the feet on and use it as a sorta "portable" heater anywhere I feel the need --- even in my house in case of power failure with all-electric heat.

The whole purpose for a heater really boils down to me being warm and comfy since this IS supposed to be fun and not a chore.
Any other benefit would be just that -- an additional benefit of a heater.

A friend has this brand vented heater over his antique vehicles http://www.robertsgordon.com/garage-heaters-infrared and a bigger version in our firehouse.
Nice stuff, but the ceiling in my pony barn is too low.

While we're speaking of "comfort", does anyone have a modern TV in their unheated shack? What type of screen, and how does it do for longevity and viewing?
Last year I put in an old cathode ray tube version left over after Mom left us in 2012. Works decent with a digital converter and plate antennae in the rafters, but takes up a lot of room and faces on the screen are slowly turning green.

[therealtreehugger]

If you are getting an RO Bucket, they are really compact, and don't take up much room. They are also very easy to pick up and bring inside, if you are worried about freezing. This way, you can heat your shack when you are out there, but don't have to worry when you are not. If you get an RO bucket kit, you can mount it on a portable board or something that is easily picked up and moved.

So, don't let the fact that you are planning on getting an RO bucket, dictate what you do for heat.

[TapTapTap]

I have a 60,000 btu propane torpedo heater that I tried in my 32x48 garage at the beginning of winter while last-minute grinding and brush painting a mower deck for family.
Even with a gable vent fan running, lots of air from the other gable vent as well as at the eaves, and the garage door propped open on a 2x4 I still felt "weird" working in the warmth of the heater.
I know those aren't nearly as efficient as "ventless" heaters (not to mention noisy), so I'm a bit reluctant to try the torpedo in the very vented shack/barn.


Whatever you do, make sure you read/follow instructions for the heater. In addition to fire hazard, make up air is important, although not likely a problem with your overly ventilated shack. But if you seal things up, any combustion heater can deplete oxygen from the space and create a health/safety hazard.

I have a Modine HotDawg propane unit in my kitchen/RO room. I also have a CO monitor and a web-based temperature sensor in the room to make sure the heater doesn't create a hazardous environment, or fail to fire and create a below-freezing condition. The sensor would also send an alert for high temperatures in the room.

Ken

[anchorhd]

Empire makes direct vent propane heaters. There are others making them also.You need some battons to cover the openings between the boards.

[MISugarDaddy]

Polish Wizard, in regards to your question about having a modern TV in their sugarhouse, we have a 34" LED Samsung in our sugarhouse. The sugarhouse is only heated during the syrup season and the cold has had NO effect on the TV. When we built the sugarhouse in 2013 we installed a DirecTV satellite dish on it so we could have decent TV reception. During syrup season we take the DVR that we use in our shop and put it in the sugarhouse.
Gary

[DrTimPerkins]

Check your local regulations before you order anything. Some places will not allow ventless heaters in certain situations, and won't run a propane line and will stop servicing any other equipment at your site if you install one. If ventless is allowed, be sure you have a CO monitor and have plenty of fresh air coming in. Finally, some people are more sensitive to CO, especially kids or people with asthma.

[maple flats]

Polish Wizard, it would help us give you better answers if you gave us your location. Just saying "here" looks like you just want to be funny, it does nothing to get answers that will often be different depending on your location.

[Michael Greer]

I had a friend who installed a ventless heater in a house under construction. The windows and doors were all in place and the building was pretty tight. The heater put out so much moisture that the entire building bloomed green with mould. With the sugarhouse already being a frequently too-damp space, I'd be leery of adding any more.

[West Sumner Sugar]

We just installed an 18K Mitsubishi Heat Pump. We have no power and run 100% on generator and its been working really nice to maintain 60 degrees while working to get in interior of the sugar house finished before the season.

[NhShaun]

I have used a ventless propane heater on several occasions in my sugarhouse and workshop(Insulated) just to take the chill off and make a comfortable working environment. There was certainly a ton of moisture created in the process, but to be expected going from 20f or so up to 60f. Once it got up to temp the heater would kick on about every 30 minutes or so for only 5 minutes at a time. The moisture in the air according to my gauge leveled out significantly at that point. If you're going to keep it heated all season i think you may be better off than starting from below freezing temps every time you want to heat the space. Carbon monoxide detectors and a fire extinguisher as well as the proper insulation/ventilation are very important if you choose to not just install a vented heater.

I'm wondering if anyone has replaced or modified the built in thermostat on these heaters to allow it to be set to around 40 instead of the lowest option being 55 or so. I am just trying to keep it above freezing to prevent my pipes and RO from being damaged. It would also be pleasant to show up in the morning and not be in an ice box before i get the evaporator fired up.

[maple flats]

I heat my RO room using a 8000 BTU wall mount vented propane furnace. It goes down to 40F fine, but the lowest number on the face is 45. It won't go below 40 or it hits the off mark.
To answer your question, you should be able to install a separate thermostat and dis-able the one it has. Study it and figure what it is doing. On most propane fired heaters they will do 1 thing, turn the burner on and off.

[Polish Wizard]

I have no knowledge of the controls for these heaters, but I do know I previously purchased a heat-only "garage version" wall thermostat for a normal furnace that would have allowed temps to 35 degrees.
I found my anticipated need no longer existed and gave it to a neighbor.
Bottom line --- a control exists, but can it be retro'd into your application?
If the heater is a wired device -- you can probably make it work.

[maple flats]

Our gun club had 2 long ones like the http://www.robertsgordon.com/garage-heaters-infrared to heat the area behind the shooting line on our indoor 10 position range. They were OK, but then we replaced them with a huge 1,500,000 btu propane gas furnace when we did a ventilation project. Now the furnace heats the air just once, it enters the shooting line , on the entire wall behind the shooters, then huge exhaust fans push it outdoors, carrying any "bad air" such as gun powder smoke or lead vapors. Expensive heating for sure. On that furnace the size of the flame varies dependent on what the outside air temp is, thus it only fires at the 1.5 million BTUs when it is real cold out. In cold weather it costs about $13.?? an hour to run. (at least that's what it cost in the 2018-2019 winter. That unit is only run when people are shooting, the rest of the clubhouse has a high efficiency forced air furnace.