RB20 info

[steve J]

I thought I would not be able to sugar this year but suddenly it appears I can. But to do so I think I will need an RO and given I will have about 100 taps I am thinking of the RB20 from the bucket guy. Can anyone using this unit give me any feed back? How much space is it taking up? I have small shack 10x16 with a 30 gallon head tank. I loved to see some pics if you have them. I am a little concerned with this unit only producing 10 gph of concentrate that it is pretty slow. Can concentrate be stored over night or for 24 hours.

[ecolbeck]

My read of the RB20 specs is that it produces 15gph concentrate at a 50:50 flow. They take up hardly any space at all. I think the decision on which one to get depends on how you plan to use it. Will you concentrate ahead of time or concentrate simultaneous to boiling? Concentrating ahead of time likely means you can tolerate a slower unit. Concentrate has a VERY short shelf life because you are concentrating bacteria along with sugar. Near freezing conditions are needed to keep it from spoiling.

[steve J]

My evaporator evaporates about 18 gph and my head tank is 30 gallons. I need a knee replacement that wont happen until late spring but I can stand for 6 or 7 hours boiling. So I am trying to figure our how to make an ro work for me.

[ecolbeck]

Again, I think it depends on how you plan to use it. I RO simultaneous to evaporating. You could easily tune an RB20 to keep pace with your evaporator. You wouldn’t make use of it’s full potential, but you would get a signifanct benefit from it. I run mine this way because it seems like a simpler process to just do everything all at once.

[maple flats]

The 20 or even the larger bucket RO's take very little space. I suggest you get one rated to output concentrate very close to your 18 gph evaporation. Realize, that you can adjust the output by changing the pressure. While that will vary the concentrate out, it as a consequence also affect oppositely the permeate output. You do not want to save concentrate unless you have the ability to keep it very cold. The sugar % determines what it needs to be cooled to. Someplace on here Dr Tim had a chart or graph for freezing points, you want to be just above freezing. Unfortunately that chart may not cover sugar % in the RO Bucket area, they likely start higher than what that RO class can achieve.
This all being said, if you remove half of the water and you started with 100 gal, you then only need half of the boiling. In fact it is really better than that. Let me show 2 examples. If you start with 2% sap you need to remove (using the new rule of 86 [now 88]) 88/2=44, you need to boil off 43 gal of water to make 1 gal of syrup. If you remove 50% of the water with the RO bucket you end up with 4% sap. 88/4= 22. For that you need to evaporate 21 gal of water to get 1 gal of syrup. Those formulas I use are updated from the original 86 rule, because we now make our syrup to slightly more dense than was originally done. Now, at 4% sugar to boil, your total is about 50 gal to process, 50/ means about 2.77 hours boiling, not, not the original 100/18 5.56 hrs. Also consider, this, it will take even less time, because for every 21 gal in, you also draw off or make 1 gal of the sweet necter we love, if you draw off rather than batch boil. Either way the math will work out the same.
If you can't boil all of the concentrate the same day, you have 2 choices. 1. stop running the RO earlier and clean the RO, save the sap, not concentrate. 2. cool the concentrate to just above freezing. At 1 or 2 degrees above freezing point for whatever sugar % you have, it will be good for a few days.
Proctor saves 35% at something like 24, 25 or 26 F for 3 maybe 4 days max. Dr Tim may correct those numbers if I'm off, but you get the idea.

[smokeyamber]

Hey SteveJ

Great minds thing alike, I too am taking the RO plunge this season, I am building the DIY version of a bucket RO, 4 membrane rated for 6%, I am gaming the whole head tank thing as well and one idea is to run direct to it from the RO, but if it does not keep up I will just use regular sap to keep up. ( my throughput is as yet unknown ) My rig can only do boil 10-12 per hour so likely this setup will keep up.

Hope the bucket RO works out for you !

Chris

[Ravenseye]

I just want to second the opinion regarding how quickly the concentrate can spoil. I started RO last year and honestly didn't do the careful reading that I should have. I made up some concentrate and then left it..about 4 or 5 gallons worth, outside in cold temps overnight. I'm certain that it would have been fine in the morning but one thing led to another and it stayed out all the next day and then the day after until I went to boil that evening. It was gone. Had it been just sap it would probably have been OK. So, plan on how you want to concentrate and boil from a timing standpoint. I learned real quick!

[Biz]

I have a couple RO buckets and they are great for the small producer. I like to boil everything in the same day, so what I do on a good run day is do a partial collection mid afternoon and start one or two RO buckets going by 3-4PM. Then by 6-7PM I have enough concentrate to start boiling. The ROs keep running and I am done boiling everything by 10PM.

Dave

[steve J]

Well I pulled the trigger on the RB20 it should more than handle what I will tap this year. And if I can tap all my trees next year after getting my knee replaced it will handle that too.

[Trapper2]

Congratulations you will love it. I did 200 taps last year with mine. It helped immensely. I loved it so much that I bought a second one this year and am adding another100 taps. I have the RB 15 models. Don't worry about space, mine sits in a corner out of the way.

[Gord]

Just to add to this thread, I took the plunge and bought the RB10 Kit. I have mostly reds. I tapped 20 of them just to run the RO and get a handle on it before the regular season starts. WOW! I couldn't be more impressed! I was skeptical about watching all that water going in my barrel thinking, there has to be sugar in there. I had 55 gallons of raw sap and ran the system at 50/50 like Carl said. My concentrate was really concentrate! And the permeate was pure water. My ratios were the same as last year, except my boil time and wood use was cut in half. Syrup came out lighter as well. I also found out my original hydrometer from tractor supply was right on the money compared to my new Murphy Cup and Gold Series Hydrometer.
Like folks are saying above, the unit takes up no space. But you still need space for 3 large barrels if you RO the day or night before you boil. One barrel for raw sap, one for the concentrate and one for the permeate. You're making so much permeate, and there's only so much you can use for cleaning the system. Getting rid of all that water will be something I'll need to figure out the next time I run it.

[steve J]

Access water will be issue for me also. I will save 3 five gallon buckets of permeate each day for cleaning. Remainder I will discharge outside of shack.