Keep it simple

[ir3333]

This is my third year and my third home built evaporator.I like trying new things and have come to the conclusion
that i want to simplify and make it easy.I have different pans and much equipment after three years, and plan to
sell off everything except what i need.
Here's what i am thinking. One continuous drop flue pan.Sap in left rear, syrup out right front...Done!
Any body using such a set up on about 75 taps?

[Pdiamond]

Do you have some ptcture you could provide for your set-up?

[ir3333]

2171621716
18 x 60

[ennismaple]

It you only run a flue pan you might have difficulty getting the syrup to density and to caramelize. Without a flat pan you will get extremely light syrup with little maple flavour.

[tcross]

I think Ennismaple is right. and not to mention the headache of trying to clean all that nitre off a flue pan! i think if you did only a flue pan, you may want to think about a finishing set up and only get the sap to just below syrup on the flue setup. I'd also imagine boiling close to syrup on a flue pan to be somewhat dangerous? that's a lot of hot jumping almost syrup in the flue pan.

[ir3333]

this year i will be using a new 48 x 18 drop flue pan at the rear for sap and a 12 x 18 front pan for syrup. (My total is 18 x 60)
I am planning to take off "near syrup" and finish and filter on propane.My first year was with one 22 x 48 divided flat pan and
as stated early syrup was quite light.My second year was 18 x 48 divided pan and 12 x 18 front syrup pan and i blended early
and late batches when i finished.
Maybe the 2 pans make better syrup as you can increase batch size and boil longer in the front pan?
tx guys!

[ir3333]

This will be the first year i am using a drop flue pan.I hope cleaning is not a problem.
As my thread says i'm trying to make everything easier.The past 2 years vinegar and
water made clean up easy.I'm hoping the rear drop flue pan will increase my boil rate
and reduce boiling time. I try new things every year hoping to make it easier and
better syrup.

[Pdiamond]

Will you be running this with a float box? If so, this will be a big advantage for you in maintaining you sap depth in the flue pan. for optimal boiling rate 1.5 inches over the flues is where you should run the sap level at. Keeping. keep the fire stoked and an O s_#t bucket of sap or water handy in case of emergency. You should be able to maintain a pretty good gph boil rate. On your syrup pan you should be able to get really close to syrup right on the arch.

[ir3333]

No float box this year, I use a syphon.A syphon works fine but you have to watch...you can lose the flow and occasionally have to
restart it. I'm going to make a shield for it in each pan.I have added a sight gauge for the flue pan this year too.
If the new 2 pan system works good then next year i will tie the syrup and sap pan together with a stainless line or maybe build a float box.
I'm wondering if i will need to completely drain the rear flue pan because of freezing overnight?
Keep the info coming guys..tx

[ennismaple]

I'm wondering if i will need to completely drain the rear flue pan because of freezing overnight?
.tx Depends on how cold it gets. Our sugar camp isn't heated so if we get a hard freeze for a few days we'll drain the float boxes and the flue pan to avoid breaking things or having valves full of ice. Some guys will run a small space heater in the fire box to keep the flues from freezing up.

In my opinion - making syrup in your flue pan is asking for trouble. Nitre flakes off the syrup pans frequently when we boil - with a drop flue where does that nitre go? To the bottom where it sits and burns because it's in direct contact with the hottest flames but there's no fresh sap coming in to the drop flues because they are plugged with flakes of nitre.

[buckeye gold]

again I agree with ennismaple, making syrup in a flue pan alone is flirting with trouble. One thing I do is I use a piece of 3/16 tubing or 5/16 and siphon the nitre out of the bottom of the flues every few boils. My pan does not have a drain for the flues. I am not making syrup in the flue pan, just to be clear. I do this when it's cold before start up. I run it into a 5 gallon bucket with a pre-filter cone and then dump the clean sweet back in. A large basting squeeze bulb will fit on the tubing and be enough to start the siphon.

In cold weather I use a outdoor 100 watt lamp under the flues....good down to 5-10 degrees F.

[ir3333]

The first year i used one divided pan and drew syrup from it. I reversed it halfway through the season because there was some nitre at the draw off end.
The second year i built a new evaporator that used 2 pans.The rear divided sap pan did not have a lot of nitre. It was feeding the syrup pan.
This year i modified the evaporator. It will still use 2 pans but now rear pan is a new divided flue pan.I expect the boil to be substantial in it.
Will the rear flue pan make a lot of nitre because of the increased exposure to flame and harder boil even though there won't be any syrup in it?

[tcross]

by your last post, it sounds like you'll have more of a traditional 2 pan set up?? rear pan is a flue pan, and front pan is a syrup pan (with partitions). if so, you'll be all set. By your first post i was under the assumption that you were only having one pan.... a flue pan. i think that would be a recipe for disaster. i'm not sure how well a flue pan and a syrup pan will work out with a siphon? the flue pan will boil violently (especially the front 1/2) and more than likely mess up your siphon. it might work... however, if you can find the time i would highly suggest connecting the pans somehow. you'll have much more concentrated sap/syrup entering the syrup pan and it can only take a matter of seconds of low level in the pan to royally mess things up!!

[ir3333]

You are correct..2 pans again this year.My first post was looking for input if next year i could just use
the flue pan and draw "near" syrup from it to get away from float boxes..syphons..front pan etc?
I am also wondering about the syphon and am going to build a shield in each pan for it.It will require
a constant vigilance and i may have to transfer sap to the front pan manually.
I have friend who does all his transferring manually from a 2' x 10' rear sap pan to a 2' x 2' front syrup pan.
He has been using the 2 flat pans for years and makes beautiful syrup.He will put 10 inches of sap in his pans,
load his firebox to the top, leave and come back the next morning. He will leave it for lengthy periods during
the day as well.He is very knowledgable to say the least and has a great system!
Yes...his arch is 2 ft. x 12' and his fire box will take 6 foot logs!

[Pdiamond]

I guess I was under the impression you were using two pans. Just using the flue pans to boil with could cause you issues. I would stay with two pans. Make your syrup in the front pan and boil in the flue pan. your friend that boils in the large evaporator is taking quit a chance that something isn't going to happen by keaving the evaporator unattended while it's boiling.

[ir3333]

Do you think just using the flue pan would be hard to manage because of a more violent boil? I have installed a sight gauge this year and I would be drawing near syrup.
As mentioned it will make probably make lighter syrup. I may just reverse the pans for a couple of boils and find out.

[Pdiamond]

In answer to your question Yes. Someone may correct me if I am wrong, but that is the the intent of a flue pan. To boil the sap in a hard violent, manner, to remove the water. As most flue pans have channels sap begins on one side and as it boils off it begins to become closer to syrup so it flows to the next channel. Now once it reach's the third channel this is where it would be piped into the front syrup pan and then flow thru its channels then drawn off as syrup when it is at proper density. sorry for being so long winded on the explanation. The sight gage is meant to help you maintain the sap level in the flue pan

[Super Sapper]

As you get closer to syrup the density changes quicker as you need to remove less water for each percentage point. You also have a larger volume of sweet or almost syrup evaporating at a higher rate than you would in a syrup pan. If you start making syrup in the middle of the flue pan as does happen with a syrup pan or just get a little distracted it can go down hill faster and would take a lot larger OH CRAP pail to keep from burning the pan. Just remember that when you start up the next boil you will have one very large draw at the beginning and it would be very hard to add fresh sap to push it out before burning.

[amasonry]

it does not sound like your keeping it simple. we have all done it. do your self a favor and skip the hassle, syrup pans are the cheap part? you will spend more money trying to make something work. just get a complete evaporator. just my 2 cents

[maple flats]

Don't even entertain the idea of using just a flue pan without a syrup pan (flat pan). You would soon end up with burnt syrup.
Your friend with a 2x12 who fills the pans to near capacity, fills the firebox and leaves for hours is a burnt down sugar house waiting to happen.

[tcross]

don't want to discourage your enthusiasm... but i agree with the last few posts. it sounds like it's getting a bit complicated, contrary to what you're setting out to do! i'd just either trade or sell the arch for the one you need to match the pans, or vice versa. sell the drop flue pan and get a raised flue pan to match the arch... one that has float boxes. it's money spent now, but i assure you, you'll be much happier in the end!

[ir3333]

As you get closer to syrup the density changes quicker as you need to remove less water for each percentage point. You also have a larger volume of sweet or almost syrup evaporating at a higher rate than you would in a syrup pan. If you start making syrup in the middle of the flue pan as does happen with a syrup pan or just get a little distracted it can go down hill faster and would take a lot larger OH CRAP pail to keep from burning the pan. Just remember that when you start up the next boil you will have one very large draw at the beginning and it would be very hard to add fresh sap to push it out before burning.

Drawing near syrup from one divided worked fine.That's what i was hoping to do by using just the divided drop flue pan.You guys are saying that the
boil will be too violent and the evaporation rate will be too fast in a drop flue pan.That is exactly what i was asking.I thought it would be ok if was drawing
near syrup.The idea was to keep it easy but boil faster.
As for my friend.He is very knowledgable, has a lot of experience with commercial producers and has been making syrup for years.
As for me, i love to build and try new things.Thanks for all the posts guys.The 100 watt light bulb is a great idea!

[ddociam]

This really is some good advice. Raised flue will be much easier to clean. My drop flue has to be picked up and turned over to really drain the flues. That usually means two people and a mess. So long term raised flue is the way to go. Also maybe the single most time saving and safety piece of equipment you can buy is the float box. Mine has never failed to keep 2 inches of sap in the flue pan weather I am there or not.

[buckeye gold]

This really is some good advice. Raised flue will be much easier to clean. My drop flue has to be picked up and turned over to really drain the flues. That usually means two people and a mess..

You can use a piece of tubing and siphon the flues out without Removing the pan. I have done it dozens of times.