To insulate or not

[Maple River Sugar]

This winter I am enclosing a 12' x 20' section of my lean to, this will house my evaporator, sink during the season and will be used for storage of filter press and other maple related equipment in the off season.

I will wrap the outside then place the steel up, I do plan on finishing the inside with steel for easy clean up.

My question is how many of you guys have insulated your sugar houses, I would think it could become too warm towards the end of the season.

Thanks

[minehart gap]

I love having an insulated sugar shack, the concentrate setting for a day or more does not have to same affection for a warm work area. It is definitely more comfortable but makes concentrate turn roppy fast unless you are going to drain and cool it.

[chickenplucker]

In the same boat at the moment, what would anyone think regarding what to use for insulation? Normal fiberglass, rockwool, foam board, bubble roll, or spray foam?

I'm leaning towards spray foam, thinking it would be the least at risk of gathering mold and absorbing moisture, plus creating a house for mice and critters. Anyone have any experience or opinions?

[TapTapTap]

There's a few things to consider.

First, if you have a sink with plumbing then it sounds like you wonder insulation, and heat.

Second, I would wait to insulate until next year then you'll have more time to think about it. Finish the enclosure for this year.

Third, type of insulation will depend on the framing. If you use rough cut 2x6 studs then insulation bats won't naturally fit, especially if you space then at 24".

Fourth, non insulated framing allows for lots of extra storage space.

Fifth, it is costly to insulate especially if you consider insulation cost, internal wall board, fasteners, vapor barrier, etc.

[buckeye gold]

My shack is not insulated, but if it was I would do spray foam.

[tcross]

my shack is not insulated but if i did insulate it i'd use Roxul (rockwool). best insulation on the market, hands down! won't absorb moisture... it's made out of ground up rocks/lava and never looses its R value like other insulation as the temps get real cold! works with rough cut and regular lumber. I find no need to insulate my shack, but if i did i would leave the sap storage area not insulated! i agree with tap tap tap... wait a season and decide for next year!

[NhShaun]

I insulated the walls and ceilings with 2" Poly iso foil faced foam board, then covered that with rough sawn T&G boards. It really makes it a more enjoyable experience when boiling on those cold nights and early mornings. I still haven't got around to doing the floor yet but that may happen this season. I plan to install a utility sink and a sprayer with on demand tankless hot water. Insulating will help keep that and the RO from freezing, and anything else liquid. It does make it a little hot in there during the late season boils, but i have double doors on both ends of my sugar house that really helps move the air.

[BSHC]

ours is insulated and i prefer it that way. Spent many years in an uninsulated shack and its hard to keep guests warm. In the uninsulated shack we had a second stove running to try and keep warm. We boil are far many colder days than the few warm ones at the end of the year plus we have doors and windows to open if it gets too hot. One thing that happend by chance is our screen door opens from the top down. This is great to let the hot air out of the room. We have a suspended hood, not a cupola.

[ir3333]

i use a new south facing lean to and I rarely boil unless it's above zero. I can sit outside in the sun when boiling
or in the shade, and it's never cold when my arch is operating. I've never boiled inside a building.I don't think I
would ever close it in and insulate.

[DrTimPerkins]

A warm sugarhouse is probably the biggest advantage of a wood arch. High efficiency oil-fired arches can sure make for a cold sugarhouse at times.

[maple flats]

I rarely found the need for an insulated sugarhouse, that is until the last 10 days or so. I ran short on packed syrup and needed to put more up. The last syrup I packed in mid Jan. was bourbon barrel aged syrup and I failed to wash (because the temps had fallen so I could not pump water) the finisher, filter aid mixing tank, the hoses to the filter press, the filter press and the water jacketed bottler. I tried 2x in the last week to get water to my tankless heater, but the supply line is frozen. That line is 1" maple tubing, then it tees off using a SS T, and a braid reinforced 3/4" line feeds the diaphragm pump which pumps water to the cold water outlet, and thru the tankless water heater. It was too cold and I could not get the water (150 gal hauled from home) to flow thru the pump and beyond. I ended up having to dump the 150 gal, so it wouldn't freeze in the tank on my truck.
If my sugarhouse was insulated and heated I could have washed the equipment and bottled more syrup. At this point it looks like I may be able to bottle a week from today, as of now, 37F is forecast, time will tell.
Being 74 now (age not degrees) and t5hinking at best I might not do syrup more than maybe 4-6 more years, I won't likely insulate. If I was 20 years younger I certainly would, but only run the heat when needed. As of now, I only heat a very small RO room, using a propane wall furnace that is only 8000BTU.
I've been doing syrup since 2003, and this is the first time I've run out of syrup to sell, but still had a barrel full I could bottle, but couldn't get it done. That was caused by a few things happening all at the same time. Covid caused my sales to essentially double, then I had a big norder from a regular customer , who bought 20 half gal jugs worth, then a wholesale order (new customer) came in wanting more than I had packed, mostly in smaller sizes. If finally pulled some from my only local retail outlet and got enough of the wholesale order filled to satisfy the customer (and without emptying that retail outlet).
A heated sugarhouse would have prevented this, first I would have cleaned right after I finished bottling the bourbon barrel aged syrup, and just a quick rinse would have done it, or I could have washed on the 2 days I tried without success.

[Ghs57]

I’m expanding my shack now and am planning to insulate. The old section has an inch and a half foam in the roof only. Eventually, the building will be much better insulated, mainly because I want to use it year round and will have running water. Sap storage will remain outside on the northern side. I poured a concrete floor with radiant heat under the new section and in the old section last summer/fall. No more dirt floor! Never doing that again. It won’t be completely finished for this season, but hopefully by next fall.

[TapTapTap]

I can see the desire to have an insulated space but it seems hard to justify to the evaporator room. The kitchen - yes. And if I had to do it again, I would expand my kitchen room. I have a small but oversized hotdawg in the kitchen. The room has fiberglass insulation in the walls and Foamular 250 around the foundation. I keep the thermostat at 50 deg unless I'm working in there, or came in to warm up. I don't see the benefit of radiant heat over a unit heater but it should work fine.

[ecp]

If I was to go new I would insolate the sugarhouse and heat it. There is to much in there to make it feasible now (and why to much money to build a new sugarhouse) but living in northern Vermont some of those nights boiling until 2 and 3 a.m. would certainly be much more pleasant if I didn't have to wear long johns and layer up with jackets because oil rigs do not put off heat very well.

visitors would also be more comfortable if it was not 10 or 20 degrees in there when they stopped by.

If you have the money spray foam would be a great option for sealing it up and holding heat in, but it not any of the other options would be better than nothing at all in my opinion. just my 2 cents.

[Ghs57]

I can see the desire to have an insulated space but it seems hard to justify to the evaporator room. The kitchen - yes. And if I had to do it again, I would expand my kitchen room. I have a small but oversized hotdawg in the kitchen. The room has fiberglass insulation in the walls and Foamular 250 around the foundation. I keep the thermostat at 50 deg unless I'm working in there, or came in to warm up. I don't see the benefit of radiant heat over a unit heater but it should work fine.

If you have had a radiant heated slab, you would know the difference. It didn’t cost that much to run the tubing, you can’t add it later and this will be used year round (beer, cider and winemaking). It’s aspirational, as I am heating with a old diy wood stove for now. I will not be using fiberglass insulation as this is a timber framed building, so no place to put it, and I'm not completely sold on iso foam. I’ve had problems with tunneling carpenter ants. They are currently in the foam in the old section. Looking at Rockwool boards.

I'll be adding some pictures in my thread in the New York forum for those interested.

[TapTapTap]

If you have had a radiant heated slab, you would know the difference. It didn’t cost that much to run the tubing, you can’t add it later and this will be used year round (beer, cider and winemaking). It’s aspirational, as I am heating with a old diy wood stove for now. I will not be using fiberglass insulation as this is a timber framed building, so no place to put it, and I'm not completely sold on iso foam. I’ve had problems with tunneling carpenter ants. They are currently in the foam in the old section. Looking at Rockwool boards.


Don't get me wrong, I can see the appeal of a heated evaporator room. I wouldn't be able to justify it. Of course I've got an 8-ft-long by 5-ft wide cupola that does a very effective job of sucking out the steam - and with it quite a bit of heat. In your case, the year round use provides further justification.

And you're chatting with someone that has a radiant slab in the chicken coop! My garage is radiant heated by my outdoor wood-fired boiler. It was an easy decision to do the same for the chickens with a circuit off from the garage feed.

[TapTapTap]

..because oil rigs do not put off heat very well.


There are some cold days, even with our wood-fired evaporator. It helps a little more since we need to handle the wood and open the firebox every 10 minutes. Like a said in my other post, we have a large cupola that is intentionally drafty.

[minehart gap]

I have the tubing in the floor for radiant floor heat but a hot dawg heater came along at a really good price before a hot water supply for the floor.

To insulate or not to insulate? Insulate. It makes life a lot nicer during the season and for guests. Comfortable guests are not in a hurry to leave so they buy more syrup.

[Ghs57]

Don't get me wrong, I can see the appeal of a heated evaporator room. I wouldn't be able to justify it. Of course I've got an 8-ft-long by 5-ft wide cupola that does a very effective job of sucking out the steam - and with it quite a bit of heat. In your case, the year round use provides further justification.

And you're chatting with someone that has a radiant slab in the chicken coop! My garage is radiant heated by my outdoor wood-fired boiler. It was an easy decision to do the same for the chickens with a circuit off from the garage feed.

Wow, my apologies (I had friendly intent). Wish I had an outside boiler - running 2 wood stoves and a pellet stove, and sometimes an evaporator.

[TapTapTap]

Wow, my apologies (I had friendly intent). Wish I had an outside boiler - running 2 wood stoves and a pellet stove, and sometimes an evaporator.

No offense taken here. Your response prompted me to check my previous post and I realized that I wasn't as clear as I should have been that an insulated/heated evaporator room would be very nice. But, that it wouldn't be very practical for my situation.

[Sugarmaker]

Folks,
Good thread! I am considering insulating my back room (kitchen area) in the sugarhouse. Its about 12 x 16 ish. I would like to make my value added products in a more warm environment at this time of the year. I should use the R-tech foam board material and then cover with steel liner panels in a cream color (like male cream or candy!). I have just added a propane heater this fall in that area, and it is about the right size to heat the room. Just takes time and dollars! Sure would be nice though! That area could use a upgrade as the building is now 20 years old and has just been used not improved. Maybe writing this down will get me going on it? :) I did put 2 inch R-tech on the ceiling. But the right way to do it would be to put steel on there now.
Regards,
Chris

[Sugar Bear]

Its nice to have good cold weather again in Yankee country.

Hopefully this nice weather we are havin will git a lot of people movin down to Rebel country so its not so darn crowdid up here in Yankee country.

[minehart gap]

I found that the plumbing and heating supply houses that make insulated duct work always have cutoffs. Sometimes these "waste" pieces are 4'x4' and larger but the key word being "waste". They throw this stuff away or are glad when you take it off there hands. I have insulated my sugar shack and pump house for the cost of a pint of maple syrup. Oh, and the guy that I gave the syrup to has become a regular customer.

[johnallin]

. ....I have insulated my sugar shack and pump house for the cost of a pint of maple syrup. Oh, and the guy that I gave the syrup to has become a regular customer.

Smart sugar maker!