Dry line or not

[Sap Raider]

I am setting up a woods that has about 2% slope and will have approximately 1500 taps. I have actually 2 questions. The first is, is a dry line necessary if I over size the main lines? If I use 1 1/4 inch for the mainline instead of 1" and 1" branches off the main will this work? There will be 3 mains with the longest being about a 1000 feet with 500 total taps on that one. The others are similar but shorter. I am estimating a total of about 6000 feet of mains and branches.

The second question is do I add up all of the distances to calculate the CFM drop to the system or do I take the longest mainline distance for CFM drop. Again the will be three mainlines and about 34 lateral branches off of the main lines. Thanks for any help on this.

[Walling's Maple Syrup]

If 2% slope is the best you have, you would benefit from a wet/dry system.
Neil

[Ultimatetreehugger]

Absolutely run a dry line. I have 1500 taps on my 1.25 over 1.25 system and several times during a good run that wet line was full and would have reduced vacuum in the woods if not for the dry line.

[maple flats]

You need to realize, with a mainline on a 2% slope you have a very small allowance for a sag before the vacuum to the rest of the system is extremely compromised. A dry line is of great assistance in that case. If 1500 taps, I'd suggest a 1.25" wet line and a 1.5" dry line, however some would use 1" wet/1.25" dry.

[Sap Raider]

I just walked part of the woods. Most of the taps are going to be closer to the lowest point. I think what makes sense now is to go with 1" mains and 1 1/4" dry line just to carry more cfm to the outer most taps. It does appear that it is more like 3% slope. The second question still is do I add up all the linear feet of main line and wet line to get the cfm loss or just the longest distance from the vacuum pump.

[Brian]

If it were me, I would do 1.25 wet and 1.5 dry conductor system. Why do all the work to find out you short changed your self. In the end it will pay for it's self. I hate to do things twice and its only going to be about 200.00 dollars difference.

[Ultimatetreehugger]

Brian makes a great point.

[Jason Gagne]

I think your on the path. I run most of my setups of 1200-1500 taps on a wet dry system with 1.25 wet and dry lines with excellent results. I would look for a nice electric releaser and a 2-3 hp vacuum pump. Also Philp Widrick lives in black falls and would show you a nice setup on a wet/dry system.

[wiam]

Agree with most of what has been said. I will add that many times I have seen sap coming down the dry line early in the day from a frozen spot in the wet line. But you’re still getting the sap.

[Sap Raider]

Well it looks like you guys are right on the sizing. The CFM at 1000 feet jumps from 8 in the 1" to 13 in the 1.25 ". That being said would you make all the wet line even the laterals off the main the 1.25"? If I go from 1.25" to 1" on the branches off the main it may reduce some cost, but if its better to keep it all the same it may make sense to do it with 1.25" mains for all of it. Any thoughts?

[Ultimatetreehugger]

Use 3/4 or one inch. Otherwise it's overkill unless you are traveling over 1600 ft on one branch or you have more than 500 taps on one branch.

[Brian]

On the conductor lines start with 1.5 for dry and go say half way or so then you can drop to 1.25 . do the same with the wet line. start with 1.25 thento 1 inch, hope this makes sense.Then branch in the main lines.

[maple flats]

I just walked part of the woods. Most of the taps are going to be closer to the lowest point. I think what makes sense now is to go with 1" mains and 1 1/4" dry line just to carry more cfm to the outer most taps. It does appear that it is more like 3% slope. The second question still is do I add up all the linear feet of main line and wet line to get the cfm loss or just the longest distance from the vacuum pump.
A relatively easy way to test the slope, is to use a hand held site level. Just measure or pace off 100' then stand at the higher end, and at the low end have a helper hold a stick or something on a tree the 100' down the slope. Once that is done, just go to that tree and measure from your eye level to the mark. If 2', it is 2%, if 3', it's 3%, guessing isn't usually correct. Eyeballing a slope is very hard in a woods setting. here's a link https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level-Tool-80-5556-Contractor/dp/B000KKWQ9S/ref=asc_df_B000KKWQ9S/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309748512842&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17762913268662542154&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9005246&hvtargid=pla-434844611722&psc=1. I see Home depot also has them, same price shown online, stores might vary.
Back when I used a site level for longer distances I actually made a holder that attached to a camera tripod. I then had an adjustment knob I turned to get it perfectly level (there is a level bubble visible when you look thru the site level). The center, longer, line is level, the lines above and below are 1% slope each.

[Sap Raider]

Okay thanks for all the replies here, vey helpful for sure. The idea of going from 1.25" to 1" half way through on the conductor line is the way to go and the same for the dry line. I may use some 3/4" on the first mains off the conductor, but that will depend on how many taps there is etc. As far as the slope goes it drops 30 ft in a 1000 ft so the 3% is very close for sure.
I am in a remote location so electricity is out of the question, what would be a good vacuum setup for this. I am guessing it will need about 30 CFM. I really want to go with high vacuum if possible.

[maple flats]

I'm not sure how you are designing this. Any wet/dry system I've seen (but I know there are bigger, more complex systems) the wet/dry go up thru the bush, climbing at 2-3%. Then everything off that is a single line main. The laterals only enter mains, never the wet/dry directly. Where any main enters the wet/dry it is designed so the gasses (air) rise to the dry line and the sap goes to the wet line. Sometimes that can be a vertical manifold, other time a T off the main goes upward, then loops to and connects to the dry line. After that T for the dry, the main curves downward and enters the wet line. At the releaser, both the wet line and the dry line connect to the releaser.
Are you thinking you will have a branch or more off the wet/dry, also in wet/dry?

[Sap Raider]

I'm not sure how you are designing this. Any wet/dry system I've seen (but I know there are bigger, more complex systems) the wet/dry go up thru the bush, climbing at 2-3%. Then everything off that is a single line main. The laterals only enter mains, never the wet/dry directly. Where any main enters the wet/dry it is designed so the gasses (air) rise to the dry line and the sap goes to the wet line. Sometimes that can be a vertical manifold, other time a T off the main goes upward, then loops to and connects to the dry line. After that T for the dry, the main curves downward and enters the wet line. At the releaser, both the wet line and the dry line connect to the releaser.
Are you thinking you will have a branch or more off the wet/dry, also in wet/dry?

Here is the way I would set it up. This is just as you describe.21708

[arcticmaple8]

When picking line sizes maybe consider using just 2 different sizes so you have less fittings and tubing on hand. We only use 1in and 1.5in, makes fitting and hose clamp inventory simpler

[Brian]

A conductor line is not the time to cheap out!!! Do it right, time is money.

[Sap Raider]

Here is what I have done so far. The conductor line starting at the highest elevation I did 1" over 1" for about 150 feet then went 1.25 over 1.25 for another 250 feet and then we 1.5 over 1.25 for the rest. The total distance for this conductor is 800 feet with an elevation drop of 35 feet. All mains off the conductor are 1" and run parallel with the slope and are running various lengths off the conductor.

[Brian]

That will work for sure!!! Good Luck

[Sap Raider]

The only reason I did the 1.5" was there is going to be another 1000 to 1500 taps in another area, otherwise I would have 1.25" over 1". I found the 1.5" is harder to work with but it should be the best setup.