Shurflo and freezing

[kudu]

So last year was my first try with the ShurFlo 4008 pump, put it into a storage tub with the battery, had quick couplers on both sides for my 3/4" mainline and a small solar panel wired through the edge of the tub. I came close to tripling my flow of sap with this setup on 225 taps. After the first test I set up a second one on a 190 tap line. I work full time so I was taking the pump out and installing another hose onto the quick connect at night into the collection tank to catch any flow after I removed the pump. I am removing the pump to keep it from freezing up at night and damaging it. As I go to work at 6am and come home at 3pm I put the pump back in the storage tote to get it back pumping. It may have warmed up enough some days that the trees were already flowing by 10am, but I was missing that much without the pump and I was just getting gravity flow.

Can the ShurFlo pumps handle a freeze? I pull my battery also to recharge it as I don't get much sun where I have to locate my pumps on the south side of the woods. I'd like to put in some type of heater element from the battery, but believe i would run out of battery power before it warms up enough to prevent a freeze. I was getting up to 22-24 inches of vacuum with this when I could locate all my leaks, and would run about 15 inches when I had good runs flowing flooding the pump.

I would really like to leave the pump set up all the time unless i know we were getting a multi day freeze, If we were just getting down to about 20 at night and expecting above freezing the next day i would like to leave it in but don't want to chance freezing the pump and destroying it. Any solutions, or do I just keep doing it like I am currently?

[Super Sapper]

There are threads on here about this issue. Basically you get a 12 controller to shut your pump off at about 30 degrees and turn on around 33 or 34. I have been doing this for several years and have not had a freezing problem with the pump. You should have a screen in front of the pump to avoid pulling ice in from the lines and damaging your diaphragm.

[kudu]

Yes, I come off my mainline with a quick connect into a tee with a vacuum gauge then through the mini filter into the pump with another quick connect fitting and hose going to the 300 gallon tank. I have the controls to set up a temperature sensor but haven't bothered setting up a wiring system for them if the pump is going to freeze and break, but what's to keep any sap still in the pump and filter from freezing and cracking the fittings.

I would hate to experiment and ruin a $60 pump plus fittings.

[DRoseum]

You can build a temperature controlled vacuum pump box in an old cooler or tote box. I just built one for 2021 for about 85 taps on 3/16 with CV spouts. Initial tests of it were great but the real proof will be when the season starts!

I got the 3 pack of those temperature controllers on Amazon for about $13.

Short video of initial test:
https://youtu.be/Pbf35p659dk
https://youtu.be/w9BIYKwxMy4

Silicon strip heaters work great but you could also use a light bulb. Key is using the controllers to control that heat source to keep your box from freezing or overheating.
21858

[Super Sapper]

By running your pump until after the sap freezes in the lines you will pump out most of the liquid sap and have tree gasses in the pump so it should not freeze solid and damage anything. The screen stops the ice from getting to the pump during this.

[SeanD]

I have two different Shurflo set ups like yours. In one 12v setup, I have a S3 from Mountain Maple (https://www.mountainmaplefarm.com/) that controls a valve based on temp. When it gets down to freezing, the valve switches from the vac line to a gravity line. The pump runs for another 10 seconds or so to flush out any sap and nothing freezes overnight. That setup has never frozen.

In another 120v setup, I have an Inkbird temp controller (https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Max-1200W-Temperature-Controller-Greenhouse/dp/B07PVBG8K1/ref=asc_df_B01HXM5UAC/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198101685250&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=398844379768502522&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001867&hvtargid=pla-318107594620&th=1) in a cooler with the pump that turns the pump on/off based on temp, but also turns on a lightbulb I have in the cooler to keep things warm overnight. That setup has never frozen. If anything, it gets too warm in the box.

I'm setting up a third box this coming year and I'm exploring my options. A lot of producers have great results keeping it simple and have the pump shut off after freezing and start after the thaw. The Inkbird/heater is so easy and provides peace of mind, but maybe it's overkill. I'm curious from others if the pump is able to empty the screen reservoir after the freeze or does the little plastic basket withstand the freezing.

Sean

[Biz]

Love the experimenting! Let us know results. The other nice thing about the S3 controller with automatic bypass valve is that if anything goes wrong, like low battery, frozen pump, blown fuse, loose cable (I think I have been burned be all of them) the controller monitors everything and if any fault is detected the shuts down and bypass valve opens to allow sap to flow under gravity. That way sap flow is not blocked when the pump is off, and you can maximize sap production until the problem gets fixed. The season is too short to miss a day's run due to a preventable problem.

On the strainer, I install mine upside down so sap cannot freeze in the bowl and break it.

Dave

[kudu]

"On the strainer, I install mine upside down so sap cannot freeze in the bowl and break it."

I like that idea, I'm a 30 year journeyman plumber, I should of known that.

[SeanD]

"On the strainer, I install mine upside down so sap cannot freeze in the bowl and break it."

You know, I think I had it set up that way when we first put your S3 out and along the way I got some other advice that the filter would work better if it was pointed downward. Your plan makes sense to avoid the freezing, though. I should have remembered that!

[tombaisley]

what model is your 120v shurflo?

[SeanD]

I use the 4008 12v Shurflo in three spots. The one on the S3 runs directly off a 12v marine battery. Two other set ups run off 110v power, but I still use 12v pumps. I use an old computer power supply to convert to 12v for the pump. It's an extra component in the box, but it's constant worry-free power and it beats hauling and charging batteries daily.

[Ken18621]

I use the 4008 12v Shurflo in three spots. The one on the S3 runs directly off a 12v marine battery. Two other set ups run off 110v power, but I still use 12v pumps. I use an old computer power supply to convert to 12v for the pump. It's an extra component in the box, but it's constant worry-free power and it beats hauling and charging batteries daily.

This is exactly what I was looking for!!!
I'm building a system right now and using a 12volt sureflo but want to run it off 110 power.
Are you using a temperature controller with your setup?
If so, do you have any pictures to share?

[SeanD]

It's the two-stage Inkbird I have linked further up in the thread. My new box is ready to go. Now I can't find anyone with an old PC tower kicking around their basement! All I find in the e-waste piles are laptops and LCD tvs. Maybe I should go to an antique shop or, *gulp* buy one.

[bill m]

I have a tower you can have. You just have to drive out here to the Berkshires for it.

[SeanD]

Right, you know what's going to happen as soon as I buy one.

[Bbc.396]

Putting together my shurflo setup for those who use a temp control do you use a electronic valve or do you just run the pump below freezing say minus 1 Celsius and have it shut off

[SmellsLikeSyrupNH]

I bought Black plastic tote boxes from HD or Lowes. When it starts to warm up they heat up faster than another color box. In 4+ years of using these Ive never had a pump freeze up and get damaged.

-1C should be perfect for you.

-SMD



Putting together my shurflo setup for those who use a temp control do you use a electronic valve or do you just run the pump below freezing say minus 1 Celsius and have it shut off

[Bbc.396]

Do you use an electric valve the opens inline before the pump?

[Smitty8377]

We put in a 15 watt bulb which keeps our box at 63 degrees. Our box is also covered with purple foam insulation

[SeanD]

Do you use an electric valve the opens inline before the pump?

On my remote battery setup, yes. The S3 controls it, so when the temp drops, the valve opens - bypassing the pump to gravity, the pump runs for 10 more seconds to clear the pump and line. No light bulb, no freezing. Fully automatic. Just need to swap out batteries. The S3 is a great unit for a remote situations.

On my 110v plugins I use the bulb to keep things from freezing because once the pump shuts off, the line and the pump stay full of sap. I do have a valve just before the box, but that's so that I can clean the filter during a pickup without losing vac in the whole line. I'll show up, close the valve, shut off the pump, clean the screen, open the valve and turn the pump back on.

If there is going to be a multi-day deep freeze, I disconnect the box entirely and take it home. I'll leave the line open to gravity feed to the tank. Once the weather improves, the box goes back out.

[maplestudent]

It's the two-stage Inkbird I have linked further up in the thread. My new box is ready to go. Now I can't find anyone with an old PC tower kicking around their basement! All I find in the e-waste piles are laptops and LCD tvs. Maybe I should go to an antique shop or, *gulp* buy one.

I had some power adapters that I forgot to bring back when returned several cable boxes to the cable company several years ago. I use one to power my 4008.

[wmick]

I've been using cheap little Shurflow type pumps for a few years now.... and a cheap temperature control, to turn on at thaw and off at freeze... No valves or heaters, etc. etc.... and I just leave it out there. Have never had a pump freeze, that I'm aware of... I suppose there's a possibility that it starts up when froze and thaws itself out...
But bottom line.... It has been working just fine to leave it out. Haven't had to replace a pump yet.