Solar and turbine powered vacuum pump

[calvertbrothers]

Hey guys I really want to get away from running gas powered vacuum pumps. My sugar bush is 1 1/2 miles off from electricity. And is pitch away from the way I need it to go. I am thinking the vacuum pump will have a 3 hp motor. I know a motor needs 30 amps to run and is 8000 watts to start and 6000 Watts to run? Then maybe add an alternator to help out charging the batteries? Any insight would be helpful. Thank you

[maple flats]

In my experience you will lose if you run a generator to run a 3 hp vacuum pump. You will use less fuel if you stay with what you had, but get a bigger fuel tank. In the past I ran 2 different vacuum pumps off gas engines. Both were Honda engines. I removed the stock gas tank and tied in larger tanks. I used 4.5 gal tanks from Surplus Center. I see they no longer have the ones I used, but they do have a few other tanks, here is one https://www.surpluscenter.com/Engines/Engine-Accessories/Fuel-Tanks-Caps/5-5-Gallon-Fuel-Tank-28-1876.axd
I made a wooden stand that held 2 tanks, put a T in the line to draw from both at the same time. Just have both tanks (or more) at the same level. I had mine set about 6-8" higher than the original gas tank off the engine and they were maybe a foot or 18" off to the side.
I ran an Alamo 30 on a 6.5 HP Honda, and an Alamo 75 on a Honda 9 HP. Surprisingly the 9 hp used less fuel than the 6.5. I think the 6.5 was working harder is what caused that.

[calvertbrothers]

In my experience you will lose if you run a generator to run a 3 hp vacuum pump. You will use less fuel if you stay with what you had, but get a bigger fuel tank. In the past I ran 2 different vacuum pumps off gas engines. Both were Honda engines. I removed the stock gas tank and tied in larger tanks. I used 4.5 gal tanks from Surplus Center. I see they no longer have the ones I used, but they do have a few other tanks, here is one https://www.surpluscenter.com/Engines/Engine-Accessories/Fuel-Tanks-Caps/5-5-Gallon-Fuel-Tank-28-1876.axd
I made a wooden stand that held 2 tanks, put a T in the line to draw from both at the same time. Just have both tanks (or more) at the same level. I had mine set about 6-8" higher than the original gas tank off the engine and they were maybe a foot or 18" off to the side.
I ran an Alamo 30 on a 6.5 HP Honda, and an Alamo 75 on a Honda 9 HP. Surprisingly the 9 hp used less fuel than the 6.5. I think the 6.5 was working harder is what caused that.

I’m trying get away from gas powered engines and I want to run off solar power if it’s possible. Trying to cut down on fuel and fuel cost. Where I would like to run solar to I will eliminate two gas powered engines one would be a vacuum pump and the other would a pump to push sap up to the shanty. I spend about $1000 on fuel a year on them two engines doesn’t count my maintenance cost nor the 20 mile ride form my house to the farm. And the 3am vacuum pump start ups before work. I’m sorry I should’ve been more clear.

[TapTapTap]

I’m trying get away from gas powered engines and I want to run off solar power if it’s possible. .

I don't think it is feasible. You're talking about lots of panels, batteries, and inverters. I'd bet you'd need a 15kw array with a battery system. Your up front cost would be hard to justify. A 15kw system is probably going to set you back about $3 per watt or possibly $50k. I got no idea what the batteries cost. Now for the bad news - you'll need to cut down about 5 acres of your sugarbush to provide good sunlight to the array.

[maple flats]

I have 6.32 KW of solar at my sugar house. I do not see even that much as being capable of running a 3 hp pump all night. Even then you'd need lots of batteries. For years I ran a 48V battery backup system on a 6000 watt inverter. That was only used for emergency heat @ 1200 watts on a thermostat to heat the RO room. The main heat was a propane wall furnace.
If you are serious about going solar/wind, look into a DC vacuum pump. Every time you convert from DC to AC there is a loss. Then get a good engineer to figure how much of a battery bank to give you 24/7 power. Even without needing an inverter (mine cost $3400) I'll bet you will need well over the $50K suggested above, maybe even $100,000. Much of that will be batteries. If you go lead acid you will likely need a huge battery bank. I have just 4 batteries 683AH 6V at my home. They cost $914 each and they would not run a 3 hp motor for even an hour.
Maybe you would be better off getting a diesel powered vacuum pump, on a big tank. That would run far cheaper than gas. In fact, before I had solar at my sugarhouse I first used a 5500 watt generator, gas powered, I later changed to a 6000 watt diesel genny. The gas used about 3x the fuel that the diesel used.
For solar I think you are just trying to get too much out of it if staying within reasonable solar size. With solar you need to account for the days when no sun shines and the 14+ hrs in early season where the sun is not out or in too low on the horizon to realistically generate much power. If wind is part of your dream, I don't know much about it.
If you go with LiFePo4 batteries, they will accept a charge much faster and rather than only being able to use 50% of the power, you can drain them down to about 15%. There are at least 2 issues with them, far more costly and they can not be charged when frozen.

[calvertbrothers]

Yeah kinda figured it would be difficult. But sounds out of my price range. And running electric would even be more money at that distance.

[eagle lake sugar]

6000 watts seems like a lot for a 3hp pump. My Atlas Copco 70cfm pump runs at about 13 amps @ 240v, or 3120 watts. I'm installing a new CDL 42cfm pump in another bush this year that requires I think around 2800 watts. These are both 3 phase pumps converted through a vfd.

[TapTapTap]

Yeah kinda figured it would be difficult. But sounds out of my price range. And running electric would even be more money at that distance.

It might not work for your situation but you could install your vacuum pump at the closest electric line and then run a vacuum line out to your sugarbush. Although, I know first-hand that moisture can collect, freeze, and plug a vacuum line in sags in the line.

[DrTimPerkins]

Although, I know first-hand that moisture can collect, freeze, and plug a vacuum line in sags in the line.

Yes, even if it is only a vacuum line it should be sloped properly to drain one direction or the other...no saps or dips.

It is not optimal to have vacuum (air) going in the opposite direction of the sap if you can avoid it, but might be way easier.

[calvertbrothers]

It might not work for your situation but you could install your vacuum pump at the closest electric line and then run a vacuum line out to your sugarbush. Although, I know first-hand that moisture can collect, freeze, and plug a vacuum line in sags in the line.

I have been thinking about this also. The first 1500 feet would pitch towards the releaser then the remaining would be pitch to the vacuum pumps if I were to do this. My biggest fear would to lose cfms

[maple flats]

I suggest you get and use a copy of the Cornell Maple Tubing Notebook, By Steve Childs. If you are going to try running the vacuum line a long distance, you need to info in that notebook to determine the size vacuum line necessary to carry that vacuum. If the transfer line is not properly sized you won't get proper vacuum to the taps or the releaser.

[TapTapTap]

I have been thinking about this also. The first 1500 feet would pitch towards the releaser then the remaining would be pitch to the vacuum pumps if I were to do this. My biggest fear would to lose cfms

That sounds okay. You'll need a moisture trap at the pump and the releaser will serve as the moisture trap at the other end.

And you'll need to check it frequently during freeze-thaw cycles.

Also, I would plumb the vacuum line with a T with valves before the releaser so that you can isolate the releaser, turn off the vacuum, and open a drain leg off the T. That way you can clear any moisture that is being pulled uphill towards the high point. It would also be convenient to have a similar configuration at the pump where you could inject compressed air down the lines to purge that moisture. This arrangement should allow you some time to fix problems while maintaining at least some vacuum in the sugarbush.

[highlandcattle]

Great idea...but. Ron and I lived off grid for 20 years with solar and wind. 2 small wind turbines mounted on the barn along with solar panels. The sap house had small solar and turbine. We used 2 5,500 watt Generac generators for back up. Our vacuum pump was gas. Pipeline ran across our pasture to the woods. About 800 ft. Our system was built over several years. Compared to others, our system was very small. For 2 people fine. What you're trying to accomplish would be extremely expensive and very difficult. You would need a big wind turbine in a big open area. Batteries are wicked expensive. Some things are just not possible...