Using a hydrometer and thermometer

[Gord]

I'm curious if anyone has used both of these tools at the same time. I have only used a hydrometer. I've seen lots of videos, and it appears most small time boilers use thermometers. My question is, if you're using both, have you ever tested them at the same time? Float to the red line on the hydrometer and hit 119 degrees at the exact same time?
Also interested in which method is favored to you.
Thanks

[maple flats]

I have not, but I did use an Accu-Cup for several years before I got a Murphy cup. The Accu-Cup has a thermometer built in and it comes with a laminated chart to tell you what the hydrometer reading should be at various temperatures. One issue with that is how much to figure for temperatures in between the temps on the chart.
For your info, if you actually get a reading of 219 (not 119) when testing your temperature of what you filled the test cup with was very likely well over 219. The reading will be essentially the same all of the way down to 211. That is why the red line is at 211.
While it costs more to get a Murphy Cup (and a Gold series hydrometer) I have found it superior to any other I've used. The Murphy Cup in reality is a thermometer in the cup like an Accu-Cup, the difference is that the face of the thermometer has been replaced with a face showing exactly what your hydrometer should read at the temperature the contents of the cup in at. The Gold series hydrometer just has a line on the outer glass to verify that the paper inside has not moved (which would give you a false reading.)

[JoeJ]

Every drop of syrup that I produce, (1,243 gal in 2020) is checked with a hydrometer and a thermometer in about 6 gallon batches before the syrup is put through the filter press and then into SS barrels. After drawing off 6 gallons into a 7 gall SS pot, I place the pot on a propane burner set up, bring the temperature of the syrup up to 211 degrees and then check the density with my hydrometer. If the syrup is too heavy, I add hot sap to reduce the density to the hydrometer 211 red line.

I have an automatic draw off that I set the draw off temperature on before each day's boil after checking the barometric pressure. I always set the draw off temperature a few tenths of a degree higher than my barometric pressure draw off temp chart that I made up. (To make sure that the initial draw of syrup is not too light) Once in a while, the only time the syrup is under density, is the first draw of the day's boil if I goof up the initial temp setting. If the initial draw syrup is too light, I just boil it a little on the propane burner to bring it up to density.

Using this method also insures that all my syrup is started through the filter press at about 210 degrees.

Joe

[to100]

Boil water first to establish degrees f then add 7.1 it should be close and hydrometer will then confirm+/-.

[maple flats]

Once I got an auto draw, I ran it just 1 season before getting a Marcland barometer/boiling point of water meter. I bought it for $99 at the winter maple conference at the NYS fair grounds the first year it was there instead of at VVS in Verona. It made setting the correct draw temp far easier. I was surprised how often the pressure changes during the day, even when no weather changes are seen. I have gotten more consistent densities since using it. That does not mean I never need to do a correction in the finisher or bottler but those are in my opinion the result of additional evaporation after the syrup is drawn. I now verify density out of the finisher if sending the syrup thru the filter press directly to a SS barrel, if sending it to the bottler I test it after a good stirring from the bottler. Anyways, I now use that and I recheck several times during the day and reset as needed. I just checked Bascom, they now list it at $150. I don't recall if the $99 I paid was a show special, or did the price go up that much?

[Pdiamond]

I like Maple Flats have the murphy cup and gold series hydrometer. This was what I started using when I got my new evaporator. I have an auto draw-off that I set just a little heavy and then will correct the density at the end of the day. I double check with the murphy cup and when I bottle.

[DrTimPerkins]

Like Dave, we currently use the Murphy Float (similar to the cup, but used in a drawoff tank) and Gold Series hydrometer. We used to use a digital stem thermometer in a cup, then went through a couple of versions of the Accu-Cup (which worked well) when we were using a finishing pan. The Murphy Float seems to be the quickest and easiest approach now that we're doing a lot more volume (typically we make 400-600 gal of syrup per boil).

During a boil I use a standard hydrometer cup and Gold Series Hydrometer for syrup coming hot off the evaporator. Fill and empty the cup 2-3x off the evaporator, then fill the cup and float the hydrometer. No need to use a thermometer since the syrup is definitely between 211-219 deg F doing it this way. This works well for getting in the ballpark (actually comes pretty darn close).

Once one side of the drawoff tank is full, we'll switch over into drawing off into the other side. Then we'll stir the full side of the tank well, put in the Murphy Float and Hydrometer and compare. Typically we'll draw a little heavy. If it is too much over, we'll add hot sap from the backpan to dilute back to proper density (this keeps the syrup hot enough to filter).

Once we're correct for density we add DE, circulate through the filter press until clear, then send it off to the barrel. We'll typically do 4-5 barrels per press run, and these are all daisy-chained together via barrel fill devices. That accomplishes three things....1) we don't need to worry about a barrel overfilling, 2) any small variation in density is homogenized out since the syrup passes through several barrels and 3) everything stays really hot coming from the drawoff tank through the press and into the barrel.

[Gord]

Thanks to all. Let me be more specific. I am a backyard boiler making less than 5 gallons all season, and boiling less than 50 gallons at a time. I have seen people on videos similar to myself with a standard digital probe thermometer in a sauce pan on their kitchen stove. When the temperature on their thermometer reaches 219 degrees, they stop boiling and start finishing.
I am using a standard glass syrup hydrometer and stainless steel testing tube I bought at tractor supply. I was asking if anyone has ever reached 219 degrees on their thermometer and then tested it with a standard glass hydrometer?
I ask because sometimes I think I'm boiling too long, and my ratios are HORRIBLE compared to what I see on this site from others. I realize my maple trees aren't the best. They are just woods maples on my own property.
I plan on doing my own experimenting using both methods at the same time, but thought I'd ask here in the meantime.
And when I say HORRIBLE, I mean HORRIBLE!!

[tcross]

use the temperature measurement as a guide to when it's time to test your syrup with a hydrometer. the are a few factors to think about when determining if you have syrup... the hydrometer doesn't lie!

[DrTimPerkins]

I am using a standard glass syrup hydrometer and stainless steel testing tube I bought at tractor supply. I was asking if anyone has ever reached 219 degrees on their thermometer and then tested it with a standard glass hydrometer?

Is it a maple syrup hydrometer? How long have you been using it? Is it in decent shape (no cracks, no niter on it, paper hasn't shifted)? Has it ever been calibrated or checked recently? Are you measuring immediately after you draw off HOT from the evaporator? If it isn't really hot, you will need to simultaneously measure temperature (with a good thermometer) and apply the correction factor.

The temperature won't stay at 219 deg F for long after you draw off, but if you dip the cup in the hot liquid or fill/dump/refill several times with hot syrup it won't cool as quickly. As long as the temp doesn't drop below 211 you'll get a good reading on the hydrometer (assuming it is in good shape and calibrated properly) doing this using the hot test (red) line on the hydrometer. Have you ever checked the syrup cold (using the cold test line, often blue)?

Some tips at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYAEAlO60qQ&list=PLZP4fDl-nB98B3TQ4YofaQQkRi-tC0ut9&index=3&t=487s

https://www.cdlinc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/use-a-hydrometer.pdf

[Gord]

Yes, it is a maple syrup Hydrometer. No, I have not had it calibrated, as I have nothing to calibrate it with, unless I bought another one. Is there a different way to calibrate it? I do know it is very clean with absolutely no cracks or niter on it. There is no time for the syrup to cool as I test it often directly from the stock pot I use to finish the syrup on propane. I can fill the stainless tester tube with one scoop of syrup, so it's a very fast test from pot to tester.
One thing I haven't done is the cold test. Can I test some of last years syrup I have in storage?
Thanks again folks!

[DrTimPerkins]

Often maple associations or state regulators will test hydrometers at maple conferences. It's good practice to bring them in each year for testing. Alternatively you can get a second one or find a nearby sugarmaker and see if they read the same. It is not uncommon for hydrometers right out of the box to fail in testing. I know of entire lots of hydrometers that had to be tossed out during inspection by the Agency of Agriculture in Vermont (all maple hydrometers used in VT must be tested and stamped by the Agency of Ag to be used) because they fail (out of spec).

Yes, there is no problem testing last yrs syrup, although if it was off when hot it'll be off when cold. Cold test is at 60 deg F or thereabouts -- so let the syrup sit out of the refrigerator overnight if that's the way you go.

Another approach would be to find someone with a syrup refractometer and compare the readings. These are better (more stable) when used with cold syrup than with hot syrup.

[Ed R]

If you are not getting crystallization in any of your finished syrup your density is probably not to heavy. A sap hydrometer or refractometer would give you an idea if your sap in and syrup off make sense.

[to100]

Where are you finishing your syrup? Size of pan/pots.
Get RO5 to save time and fuel, you wouldn’t regret it, just wish you did it sooner.

A bio of you operation will help others understand your operation.

[minehart gap]

In answer to your original question, "if you're using both, have you ever tested them at the same time?", yes. When I bottle, I used to use a 5 gallon ss pot that is fitted with a ball valve spigot. I would place the probe of a k-type thermocouple in the pot with the hydrometer. The only tricky part was stabilizing the temperature. I now had a bottler built with a pid temperature controlling an electric heating element that is a lot easier to control.

I still do this to verify and correct density before bottling. I only bottle in glass so I don't want any crystalization because it looks bad and we all want to be sure that our product is at correct density.

"Which method is favored by you?" Both in conjunction with each other. Otherwise you are just guessing. Even refractometers are using both so long as they have temperature compensation.

[Gord]

Where are you finishing your syrup? Size of pan/pots.
Get RO5 to save time and fuel, you wouldn’t regret it, just wish you did it sooner.

A bio of you operation will help others understand your operation.

I have been going back and forth with Carl at RO Bucket to put together a system for me.
I boil my sap with wood, and finish on propane with a 20 quart stainless steel stock pot.
I've watched several videos on using my hydrometer. I always wondered if that piece of paper in the glass tube could move, and after watching, I see that it can, which would be giving me a false reading.
Thanks again folks.

[to100]

In 2018 hydrometer are marked inside of glass at the top with red line that stops at Brix line at the top. The line is on sap and syrup hydrometers. I now have 2 hydrometers so I can check each, I also have a hydrometer that has a hair line crack from allowing slip out of my hand while placing into stainless cup. I have put a piece of green scrubby into bottom of my stainless cup.
I have a pot with hot water or sap where I bottle so I can clean cup and hydrometer after taking a test. This also keeps them warm for testing.

[Gord]

Thanks to all!! I'm ordering the Murphy Cup and the Gold Series Hydrometer to match. I'm seriously considering the RO system Carl was putting together for me from RO Bucket as well.
You folks are a terrific source of information!!

[DrTimPerkins]

I'm ordering the Murphy Cup and the Gold Series Hydrometer to match. I'm seriously considering the RO system Carl was putting together for me from RO Bucket as well.

Sounds like Christmas!

[JoeJ]

Has there been some serious inflation going on with the Murphy cup? $139.00 !!! I paid $35.00 for mine 4 years ago.

Joe

[CTguy923]

Thanks to all!! I'm ordering the Murphy Cup and the Gold Series Hydrometer to match. I'm seriously considering the RO system Carl was putting together for me from RO Bucket as well.
You folks are a terrific source of information!!

want to adopt me ?

[Gord]

want to adopt me ?

Only if you can run the RO HAHAHA

[Gord]

Well, I did it! Just ordered the RO from Carl!
Yes Tim, It's Christmas here in NE CT!!

[DrTimPerkins]

Ho, ho, ho....Merry Christmas!

You'll definitely enjoy it.