Maintaining vacuum from 3/16 to mainline

[ADK_XJ]

Hey all, I'm hoping I can communicate my question effectively here but know all the great minds here will find a way to have this make sense to me:

We recently moved to a new (much larger) property with some great slope with multiple drainage areas that follow that same slope and are littered by maples. I've never done tubing before due to scale and lack of slope of my former property but, as I'm mentally mapping this out, now my lack of knowledge about tubing setups is clear.

So, here's the question: I know I'll be able to get great vacuum on the 3/16" lines for up to 20-30 taps at a time but how do you maintain vacuum when tying the various lines into a mainline that also goes down the slope? Are you dependent exclusively on the gravity from the 3/16" to carry into mainline or is there a trick / technique for also developing/maintaining that gravity vacuum straight through to a collection point?

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Basically, once the sap is in the mainline and headed downhill there is no need for the vacuum. Vacuum is needed at the taphole to increase sap flow from each individual tap. As long as your mainline slopes to the collection point it (the mainline) does not need vacuum.

[maple flats]

The vacuum is needed at the tap hole, that increases 5-7% more sap on average for each inch of vacuum on the tap hole. When you get to the mainline, which must be sloped downhill as Thompson said, you then drain the lateral into the mainline. For that you want a saddle and a connector. If you run the mainline tied to a tight support wire, you hook the connector to the wire, then a loop of tubing with no tension on it, curves around and connects to the saddle. If you are using the Rapid Tube method, with no support wire, use a length of the flat chain type strap used with RapidTube, hook it around the mainline with a tail facing the uphill incoming lateral. Attach the hook connector into an open space in the strap, then have a loop of tubing from the connector to the saddle. You need to understand that 3/16 requires cleaning. Clean it shortly after the season and again in mid to late fall, when temps are above freezing. I use calcium chloride, you can use sodium chloride but it can often attract squirrels looking for the residue salt.
I use 5/16 drops and 5/16 loops and saddles on my 3/16 laterals.

[buckeye gold]

You need slope all the way to the mainline. Run all your 3/16th down slope far enough to keep drop in it, the more the better. If possible keep fall after your last tap for 20-30 feet. The mainline should not start until your 3/16th lines all have slope below them. No need to have a mainline up the slope, just run longer 3/16 until you have the desired slope, it doesn't have to have taps on it. The mainline doesn't need much fall at all, it only serves to collect sap and requires only enough fall to drain into your collection tank.

[ADK_XJ]

Basically, once the sap is in the mainline and headed downhill there is no need for the vacuum. Vacuum is needed at the taphole to increase sap flow from each individual tap. As long as your mainline slopes to the collection point it (the mainline) does not need vacuum.
Got it, I think that makes sense - thanks for the reply!

[ADK_XJ]

The vacuum is needed at the tap hole, that increases 5-7% more sap on average for each inch of vacuum on the tap hole. When you get to the mainline, which must be sloped downhill as Thompson said, you then drain the lateral into the mainline. For that you want a saddle and a connector. If you run the mainline tied to a tight support wire, you hook the connector to the wire, then a loop of tubing with no tension on it, curves around and connects to the saddle. If you are using the Rapid Tube method, with no support wire, use a length of the flat chain type strap used with RapidTube, hook it around the mainline with a tail facing the uphill incoming lateral. Attach the hook connector into an open space in the strap, then have a loop of tubing from the connector to the saddle. You need to understand that 3/16 requires cleaning. Clean it shortly after the season and again in mid to late fall, when temps are above freezing. I use calcium chloride, you can use sodium chloride but it can often attract squirrels looking for the residue salt.
I use 5/16 drops and 5/16 loops and saddles on my 3/16 laterals.
Thanks for the explanation, I think I follow on most points but two questions: 1) what is the RapidTube you refer to? I guess a Google session is in my future... 2) so you're saying you use the larger diameter tubing from the taps and then 3/16 tubing/line to create the vacuum on the laterals? assuming yes, is this just a cost saving exercise or is there a rationale to have the greather diamater from the tap?

[ADK_XJ]

You need slope all the way to the mainline. Run all your 3/16th down slope far enough to keep drop in it, the more the better. If possible keep fall after your last tap for 20-30 feet. The mainline should not start until your 3/16th lines all have slope below them. No need to have a mainline up the slope, just run longer 3/16 until you have the desired slope, it doesn't have to have taps on it. The mainline doesn't need much fall at all, it only serves to collect sap and requires only enough fall to drain into your collection tank.
Ah, that makes sense to me and sort of helps with my situation. I was trying to figure out how to balance achieving good slope from the tap lines (laterals) while also having long runs of mainline that maintain steep slope but what you're saying helps in my application. I was imaginging sort of a high-wire act of installing mainline at the top end but I won't worry so much about that I guess.

[DrTimPerkins]

Find some sugarmakers nearby who use tubing somewhere nearby and take a look at their tubing systems. Or take a tubing course from Cornell if they offer one in your area. A general overview of tubing systems can be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6lpMgsfF-c&list=PLZP4fDl-nB9-4aZkQyDR070QpxcAr02q5&index=9&t=57s There are also other videos there on specific tubing installation techniques. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2KD4Pw_9JgJT749KgnE-aA

[maple flats]

For info on Rapitube start here https://youtu.be/L6u2Hg_YgqE
To get more info search "Rapitube for maple sap"
It costs more to buy but saves lots to install and maintain.

[ADK_XJ]

For info on Rapitube start here https://youtu.be/L6u2Hg_YgqE
To get more info search "Rapitube for maple sap"
It costs more to buy but saves lots to install and maintain. Thanks, this was the video I landed on after a late night google search. Looks pretty easy to install compared to a fence-tensioning wire-syle system.

[DrTimPerkins]

Rapitube is a bit more expensive, but can certainly be faster to install than wire, and easier to fix if a tree falls on it, so it depends upon which you prefer. Just make sure it is tensioned properly when installed and you'll be happy with it.

[ADK_XJ]

Find some sugarmakers nearby who use tubing somewhere nearby and take a look at their tubing systems. Or take a tubing course from Cornell if they offer one in your area. A general overview of tubing systems can be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6lpMgsfF-c&list=PLZP4fDl-nB9-4aZkQyDR070QpxcAr02q5&index=9&t=57s There are also other videos there on specific tubing installation techniques. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2KD4Pw_9JgJT749KgnE-aA Thanks for these suggestions, I am going to take a look this evening. Yes, we've utilized our local Cornell Co-Op Ext office quite a bit since moving to our new property so I will check out what they may have to offer.

[ADK_XJ]

Rapitube is a bit more expensive, but can certainly be faster to install than wire, and easier to fix if a tree falls on it, so it depends upon which you prefer. Just make sure it is tensioned properly when installed and you'll be happy with it. Got it, I can see where that would make sense. The one thing that I was not as keen on was the wrap-around anchor setup - I sort of figured a heavy-duty eye-bolt could better maintain the health of the anchor tree.

[ADK_XJ]

For info on Rapitube start here https://youtu.be/L6u2Hg_YgqE
To get more info search "Rapitube for maple sap"
It costs more to buy but saves lots to install and maintain. Thanks, and in regard to using the 5/16 for drops what is the reason for that?

[Super Sapper]

As a tree freezes it causes a vacuum inside that can pull sap back into the tree from the drops. The 5/16 reduces the amount of sap that will be pulled back in due to the larger amount of air (gas) in the drop. This can contaminate the hole with bacteria from your lateral. It also gives you more options on spouts.

[ADK_XJ]

As a tree freezes it causes a vacuum inside that can pull sap back into the tree from the drops. The
5/16 reduces the amount of sap that will be pulled back in due to the larger amount of air (gas) in the drop. This can contaminate the hole with bacteria from your lateral. It also gives you more options on spouts.

Ahh, gotcha. That's a great tip.