New 2x6 arch for "new" pans

[darkmachine]

Purchased a used sunrise 2x2, and a used smokey lake hybrid to replace the old 6x6 Grimm syrup pan that we have been boiling on(attached picture). planning to replace the threaded fittings with sanitary fittings on the smokey lake pan. also building our first metal arch. Previously we had an arch built out of cinder block. Any suggestions or observations welcome on our progress.

[darkmachine]

Today's progress, not sure why the pictures are uploading on their sides, but you get the idea. I saw some plans that this is roughly based upon, no ramp. does anyone see a drawback there?

http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=21555&stc=1http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=21556&stc=1

[maple flats]

What is the width of the new arch? It has rather wide angle iron, I hope you are not planning that much overlap (pan on the angle iron). The more overlap you have, the less heat transfer to the pans. Also, is that a brace across from side to side, factory built arches don't have a cross brace, at least my old 2x6 and my currant 3x8 don't.
As far as the lack of a ramp, you still want some ramp for better heat flow to the pans. That being said, when I added air over fire (AOF) I built my back wall up so I have an air tube around the fire box with nozzles every 6" , aimed down at an angle. My back wall now only has a 4" tall ramp and it works fine. I don't know if it would be good without the AOF under high pressure.

[darkmachine]

The top rail is 1.5" angle, the ”legs" are 3". The dimensions are 24 wide(couldn't make it much wider without extending the fittings on the pan. I have some angle left so I can add a short ramp. I'll be working on it this afternoon, I'll post som more pics.

[darkmachine]

Flipped the arch over today to check the fit of the pans. Just need to go through the barn and dig out the rest of the plate for the back. I had 1/4" on hand so it's getting heavy to move and shift around, by the time i get the doors on, and the rest of the firebox closed in it will be the job of the tractor.
http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=21558&stc=1http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=21559&stc=1http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=21560&stc=1

[Pdiamond]

Looks to me like its coming along nicely. You should be set for next season well ahead of schedule. Are you going to line it with ceramic blanket and fire brick?

[darkmachine]

I have firebrick to install, I need to order ceramic blanket. I left enough space under the back pan so I can upgrade to a pan with 7" flues, so I will need to build that up, maybe vermiculite? I used "rockwool" to seal up the old cinder block arch and it worked well and held up to the heat, not sure I'll use any of that in this build. It is going to take me a few days to work out an airtight door, grates, and blower attachment. I'm trying to hurry because I know me, and I do procrastinate, lol.

[Pdiamond]

yeah me too. Always wait until the last minute. I am getting better though, Picking up tubing and stuff for installation this fall. Be ready to tap next spring.

[maple flats]

With the 1.5" overlap on the angle iron, the side channels will not boil as well. My 36x96 arch (plus rear base stack area) has a width of 38", with just 1.25" angle iron, thus I have just 1/4" overlap. Can you cut the top angle down to maybe 3/4"?

[darkmachine]

I may be able to shave it down some, but I have fire brick in there too, so I can't go passed that. I probably could have made the arch an inch wider but I wanted to make sure the sanitary fittings had enough clearance. Maybe I can bevel the top bricks or cut a full brick in half at an angle leaving it like 1/2 inch on one end. I have a big wet saw to cut them.

[maple flats]

The top fire brick can be tapered down to 1/2" thick, even down to zero in the upper 2" or so with your 1/4" plate sides. That will give you a better boil.

[Robert K]

Nice work, I agree with Dave, try to reduce the amount of pan covered by the rail, you can weld stops on outside if worried about movement. If I might add , please put some sort of a valve or way of controlling flow of air. A pressure blower is like hitting the nitrous on a big block , you better either control it or hold on.

[darkmachine]

I am still up in the air about the type blower to use. I have read that some use the blower for a "bouncy house". I can hook that up with a big gate valve or maybe a large brass ball valve. has anyone used a blower from a houshold air handler or something simliar?

[mol1jb]

If you are just doing air under the grates it doesn't need to be a high pressure blower like a bouncy house blower. Any squirrel cage blower would work. If you did go with the bouncy house blower, definitely have a way to adjust the air flow like a pvc ball valve.

[darkmachine]

It may seem odd but the biggest concern for me is noise, the operation has always been pretty peaceful with lots of conversation. I considered pluming the air in and putting the blower out of the shack. I think I've seen that done before.

[tcross]

i don't have a blower on my current 2.5x8, but on my old arch, i had my fan outside and ran 3" duct pipe into the arch from outside. worked well! just minimize the amount of elbows you use!

[maple flats]

My high pressure blower is outside, under my head tank platform and it is still plenty loud in the sugarhouse. I plan to make a sound deadening cover for it, with the side away from the sugarhouse open, sending most of the noise away from the sugarhouse.
HP air is only used if you are setting up air over fire (AOF), which really increases the boil and the efficiency.

[darkmachine]

short of a high pressure blower, i am looking at this model, squirl cage, suposed to be quiet, would likely fit just find behind the firbox under the flue pan.

https://www.amazon.com/Dayton-1TDT6-Blower-Speed-115V/dp/B003V18W96/ref=pd_ybh_a_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=Z3WRG6D3WRGD9XETC1EM

[maple flats]

For simple air under fire (AUF) a squirrel cage fan is the way to go. For that, check what size is suggested by looking in a few equipment catalogs. Then buy one the right size or slightly bigger. You want a way to throttle the air flow, the easiest way is to either have an inlet damper (a piece of flat sheet metal mounted with just 1 screw) that you can move to adjust the air, or a damper in between the fan and where it goes in under the fire. Either method requires the damper to be mounted so it does not move in use unless you move it. The fan will have 2 small tubes leading to the bearings, add 1 drop of light oil each season for long life.

[darkmachine]

finally able to get back in the shop and do some work on the arch.
Left to do:

fabricate door latch
weld in metal on flue section of arch
cut/install fire grate
install blower
paint
BOIL!!!!!!
http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=21573&stc=1http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=21574&stc=1http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=21575&stc=1

[darkmachine]

2158421585

All dressed up and no place to go, was able to put in the high temp paint, still waiting on door hardware, package was damaged and never delivered.

[darkmachine]

Started installing door hardware today.
Took forever to get here from Amazon. Need to get bolts tomorrow to finish installing.
2159321594

[maple flats]

That looks like it could be cast aluminum, is it? Back years ago, when I was a scoutmaster, the scouts once melted a cast aluminum dutch oven. Your door could get too hot for that if aluminum unless the area inside at that point is well insulated. In full boil my IR thermometer sometimes shows over 1000F, aluminum will melt well below that. My door is not insulated, I like the heat to warm the sugarhouse and I always have had extra wood.

[darkmachine]

The cam locks seem to be too heavy to be aluminum, but i could be wrong(I know they are hot dipped galvanized, acording to the listing). The arch front and door are both insulated. I know I have had the door of my old arch glowing red after a few hours of boiling. The standoff's that i fabricated hold them about 1.5 - 2' away from the front, and the door hardware and handle are all galvanized steel. Hope it holds up, I have a backup plan.

I'll know for sure if it's aluminum when i try to weld the cams on the pipe, lol.

[darkmachine]

21601

The cam ends welded to the steel pipe with no problem, pretty happy with the results.

https://youtu.be/3lBw7Y1H7G4

[darkmachine]

Blower fan duct fabricated and fan mounted today

http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=21603&stc=1

https://youtu.be/O1TcNYXEqUI

[darkmachine]

2160921610

New draw off for the new setup, hope to test with boiling water next week.

[darkmachine]

Arch moved in to the sugar shack today, next step set the stack....it's a 8x10 inch pice of square tubing 14 feet long and heeeeeeeaaavvvvyyyy
http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=21613&stc=1

[Pdiamond]

So how many people does it take to set that bad boy up?

[darkmachine]

I seem to remember it took two at the base, and two at the other end of a rope run over the shack. There may have been other standers by to provide medical assistance if needed. The base welded on the tube is 6' wide so I need to cut it down to 24" for the new arch, then I'm thinking tractor bucket and chain this time around.

[darkmachine]

http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=21615&stc=1got all the bricks cut and fit today, tapered the top row as suggested, it was almost painless. Waiting on the refractory cement, hopefully I'll get that tomorrow.

[darkmachine]

21617. One step closer to a test boil!

[darkmachine]

Finally got to do some more work in the shack, Ran the wire and switches for the blower fan. Had an oppurtunity to light a fire too, we did a rought time to put a boil on 20 gallons of water, which is what we measured to put 1.5 inches in the pan. 10 min to a full boil accross the whole pan from the time we lit it. I wish i had a video of it. Plan to do a GPH test video when i have time to get it up to temperature and run a test for a few hours. Oh, and it only took two 5 gallon buckets of oak slab wood, even had a handfull left over.


https://photos.app.goo.gl/pdBTQvj4xBoFT6T16

[vtbackyardmaple]

Hey can you get a pic of the blower posted from inside the arch? I have the starcat and want to build one - a blower for it.
Thanks.

[darkmachine]

This shows the hole, the grates and the outside. 21661. I kinda just cut everything to fit.

[vtbackyardmaple]

Thanks and super cool. I like MacGyvering things. I'm looking at a bounce tent blower and reduce it to 1/2 inch and put 1/2" pipe all around the base using steel tees and angle them toward the base of the wood fire. The blower is rated for 195cfm with controller and my box is 16x30. Starcat evap. It's cheap and I can do it myself. The idea is just to get more air blowing on the fire and for my small arch I think I need to disperse it rather than a huge blower like you have with one huge port. I think I'm on the right track. Thanks.

[darkmachine]

No problem, my design is totally unproven, I considered a different setup with pipe for air, and auf, but it was an afterthought. I'm still anxious to see how it preforms. My fan isn'tbtoo much more cfm than yours, I worried about the noise level, this one is pretty quiet. It's nice to see everyone trying different things to improve performance and get the gph up!

[darkmachine]

Sugarhouse just needs a little organizing, and a load of gravel for the floor. I also used some clear tubing on my sap supply line so i don't have to go out and check my head tank, just need to put the marks on the white board behind the tube. I'll proably do a test boil Friday if i can stand to wait that long, lol. I also mounted my sap transfer pump, and UV lamp inside the shack instead of hauling them out every time I pump out the truck tank.
http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=21727&stc=1