Poll - Spout heaving

[DrTimPerkins]

Hi Folks,

Just trying to get some idea of possible new topics to investigate. This one is a POLL of spout heaving (1/4", 19/64" or 5/16" PLASTIC spouts popping out of the taphole). Please complete the poll, but if you have additional comments, go ahead and reply. I'd especially like to hear things like if it was an issue, but you now have gone to pounding them in further or made other changes in an attempt to prevent it.

Thanks much,

Dr. Tim

[Tmeeeh]

Where do we go to answer the poll? OK is see where to answer.

[wiam]

For me the stubby comes off the cv1. Usually happens in low teens or below.

[JoeJ]

This is the first season that I have had spouts pushed out or rather loosen in the tap hole. I have used clear, straight acrylic spouts for twelve seasons and this is the first season the I have had any loosened by frost. I do all my own taping on 3,200 taps using a Lapierre taping hammer. After two weeks of the season with my vacuum running at 27", it suddenly dropped to a range of 19" to 22". I spent countless hours in the woods looking for leaks or the cause of the lower vacuum. I have a fisher and deer problem in the woods and put in probably between 120 and 150 couplings for repairs and replaced a bunch of chewed drops. After these repairs, the vacuum would go up a little and then drop back down. I had the mystery solved for me last Sunday as I started to pull the taps. After pulling 40 or 50 spouts, I noticed a few had really come out of the tap hole easily and without the normal "snap" noise as the spout was removed from the hole. Later that day and then for the rest of my spouts pulling, I kept a subjective count of the taps that were removed without the "snap". I counted between 10 and 12% of my spouts had been loosened in the tap hole.
With nothing better to do as I pulled the spouts, I tried the figure out if the spouts were loosened on a particular aspect of the tap hole. I didn't find any relationship to that. However, some of my lines face northerly and that part of the woods had more loose spouts than the west facing lines. I also put in 88- 90 degree clear acrylic spouts (they were free) on one west facing line and not one of them was loose. So next season, I think that I will be using all 90 degree spouts. The big problem with the clear straight spouts is not being able to tap the spout in without cutting off the drop line.(which I never did) Also, I did notice that the clear straight spouts have more taper than the 90 degree spouts. Most of the clear straight spouts, when removed, have a misshapen end on it that conformed to the tap hole. None of the 90 degree spouts had any misshapened ends on them.

Joe

[Jasen Stock]

This year i saw heaving for the first time since I started tapping 10 years ago. I have 247 taps (18 buckets, 226 5/16 tubing with clear acrylic taps).
Most of the heaving occurred (approx. 20 taps) were acrylic on Red Maples. I did have 2 buckets also heave, also on Red Maples.

[GeneralStark]

I voted "happens a good bit" but I should specify that in the several years of using two different spouts, CDL smart spouts and Leader CV2 spouts most of the issue has been with the CV2s. I have only seen one come out of the taphole a couple times but every year I do have to re-set quite a few as they can start to leak a bit. It's generally pretty noticeable by the flow of sap from the taphole. I have only very rarely had to re-set a smart spout.

My feeling is that the CV2s don't have enough taper so they don't hold the wood as well.

I have often wondered if this is why some producers don't see the results with CV2s others do given that a leaking tap hole could lead to premature taphole closure...

[JoeJ]

Jasen,

I guess that I should have thought of noting if the loosened spouts were in red maple or sugar maple. That might have been the reason why the northerly lines, which have a higher percentage of red maples had more loosened spouts than the west facing lines which have a higher percentage of sugar maple.

Joe

[Jason Gagne]

It’s happened to us in the past 2-20%, now less then 1%. We use dewalt drills(2000rpm), new tapping bits, two hands on the drill when tapping and cv2 spouts, nylon hammer. I personally set about 10k spouts a year. Trees are also all hard Maple, this is important because I have a few soft maple that I have to drill very carefully to prevent oblong holes.

Jason

[RileySugarbush]

The 30 degree clear signature spiles seem to have a thinner wall and when well set in the tap hole are more secure than more rigid plastic spiles

[SeanD]

I might have messed up your poll. I'm the one guy who put "happens every winter", but let me qualify that. I've never had a spout come completely out of a hole, but I do find myself reseating them almost every year especially when we have spells down in the teens or lower early in the season. I'll know they need it because with a couple of gentle taps, they'll "click" once or twice back in.

[minehart gap]

In the past 3 years I have used Leader CV2, Lapierre clear spouts, CDL white seasonal spouts and Zap Bak spouts. I probably should have gone with happens a lot but instead I voted happens a good bit because I don't actually know anymore. Three years ago, I kept track and it was just short of 50%, since then I automatically reseat my spouts after every hard freeze. I use a Lapierre tap handle, DeWalt drill on high speed and a new tapping bit. I have not noticed a difference between sugar maple and red maple but I have observed that the spouts in black maple stay seated.

Good luck Dr. Tim. Interesting topic.

I wonder how much of a difference 3/16" vs. 5/16" tubing play and natural vs. mechanical vacuum play.

[DrTimPerkins]

If you've not voted yet...please do so. The more data the better.

[DrTimPerkins]

Bump...please keep the poll responses coming folks.

[DrTimPerkins]

We're getting close to 100...if you haven't yet voted..please do!

[kboone1]

My reply was "happens a good bit", and I would like to add that I have primarily red maples. I tap as early in the season as possible since the bud date is so early compared to sugars, and run gravity and shurflo on the 3/16. I always have to go back through and tap in a decent amount as the first couple weeks progress, otherwise vacuum is really affected.