What do I need to heat syrup for bottling? Finisher? thanks

[motowbrowne]

Currently I draw syrup off my cooker a little light (around 30 degrees Baume). I cool it in stainless cans then transfer to buckets. Once I start making some darker syrup and get caught up on other beginning-of-season stuff, I start bottling.

Until today, I have always drained my front pan, cleaned it, filled it with syrup, and reheated it with a small wood fire. This works, but it's not my favorite. It's hard to control the wood fire. I can't filter and bottle everything that's in the pan because I can't drain it fully with a fire underneath, etc.

Yesterday while buying some cases of bottles, I bought a 2x4 propane finisher on an impulse. It's not a fancy one. It just uses a double turkey burner setup under the pan. No sides or insulation on the frame to keep the heat in. No divider, just a flat pan. Anyway, I was excited to use it today. So after peeling the stickers off this morning I put 30 gallons of syrup in it and fired it up. And waited. And waited and WAITED. It took about 3.5 hours until I had the syrup up to temp. A little longer to bring it to the right density. Normally I would like to be able to bottle 60+ gallons in an afternoon, but that wasn't happening today. I was lucky to get 37 through it.

So, anyway, hopefully my dealer will take it back without too much of a penalty, but moving forward, what are my options? Will a nicer finisher with tube burners be faster? How long will it take to heat 30 gallons of syrup? I don't have 220 power at the shack, and that's unlikely to change, so propane seems like the best choice unless I'm missing something.

I did briefly consider finishing syrup all the way on the rig, filtering into super clean containers, and later reheating with a water jacketed canner, but it seems like most guys who reheat filter again too, so I don't see that working real well unless I had two canners. Plus, the water jacket canner doesn't seem real fast either.

Anyway, I'd love to hear what you guys do and I appreciate your advice.

Thanks Ryan

[Super Sapper]

I always take mine off a little heavy, it does not make any sense to me to take it off early and finish it on something that is way more inefficient and time consuming. When I have enough to filter I reheat on a turkey fryer, adjust density and run it through my press into the bottler.

If you have a water jacketed bottler or system that will not make more niter you could take off a little over density, heat and filter into a larger container. When you want to bottle just but it into your bottler and heat to around 185 and bottle. There is no need to filter it again if you are not creating more niter.

[maple flats]

What exactly is that finisher? I use a 2x6 finisher, but rarely need to boil it more except when I finish off the evaporator at season's end. My finisher has 4 tube burners, but I only use the center 2 and I can get 60 gal up to filtering temp of 205-210 in about 45 minutes. What was your propane supply? is it possible it may have been low and not giving you full heat. I used to have a Leader 16x34 finisher that had 2 burners, that was slower but still heated fairly well.
My experiences however are both while running off a small bulk tank with a high pressure regulator then reducing to a low pressure regulator where the unit hooks up to the propane supply. Might be you need a better fuel supply.

[motowbrowne]

The finisher I bought is a GBM. It's locally made I think. It has 2 Bayou Classic burners under it. Just big round burners, not tube burners. It's 2'X4' and maybe 8" tall. I don't see where they list the BTUs, but this is pretty much the burner under it: https://www.bayouclassicdepot.com/collections/bayou-classic-double-propane-burners/products/bayou_classic_db375_specialty_double_burner

It was running on a freshly filled 20# cylinder and pressure didn't seem to be the issue. I had to keep the valves dialed back considerably or the flames would get pushed off the burner and go out. I did mess with the air adjustment on the burners quite a bit and still wasn't able to get a ton of heat out of it as can be seen by how long it took.


Super Sapper, I take off light because I don't like diluting, though in the future, I wouldn't mind trying that way with some distilled water. I don't have condensate or permeate in my operation, so that's not an option. I can't stand the idea of reheating on a turkey burner. When I bottle I usually have a couple people helping me and so far, heating syrup is the holdup. I'd need about 10 turkey burners to get enough syrup hot enough fast enough.

Smoky Lake says their 2x4 will bring 40 gallons to bottling temp in 20 minutes. That would work, but of course it's a bunch of money. I also got a quote on a 220 volt water jacket canner, which seems pretty reasonable. I don't have 220 at the shack, so I'd have to filter into buckets or small barrels, transport the syrup up to our vegetable packing shed and reheat and bottle there. I'm not opposed to this, since currently I have to transport empty glass into the woods and full cases back out. Someday I would like to be able to cook and bottle at the same time, which I guess could be managed with a generator or running actual power out there someday both of which would be additional expenses.

I don't mind spending some money on the right solution, but I don't want to buy something that won't fit into my operation as it evolves.

[maple flats]

I think that type of burner can have a very wide range BTU output depending on the exact burner. If just stamped metal they can be about 12,000-18,000 BTU max, if a cast iron burner they often range up to 120,000-150,000 range. If it took 3 1/2 hrs, if your propane supply was good, they likely paired it with burners with too little max heat. Back when I had a Leader 16x34" finisher I don't recall what the burners were, but I think they were cast iron. While it heated well, I didn't like the burners because they heated with 2 rings on the pan where it was hotter. Tube burners give a far better dispersed heat. Here's one that generates 210,000 BTU, the same place has burners from 55,000 to at lease 210,000 BTU, all at decent prices. https://www.webstaurantstore.com/backyard-pro-outdoor-range-patio-stove-with-hose-guard-210-000-btu/554BPHP17.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=CjwKCAjw95D0BRBFEiwAcO1KDOXqq_FAXaV8qpie5QPp JhJG5Uzq2_UFxx38HciETRyZc1uL-2JnGRoCCX8QAvD_BwE

[maple flats]

It might be cost effective to buy 2 pipe burners. For a 4' pan you would want a 36" long flame burner and position it 6" below the pan and have the flame 6" in from each end of the pan.
A google search will give you several options. The pan you have is likely good. You can make legs and an area for the burners. Mine has pipe legs and an angle iron frame. Then the burner area has a SS floor, SS sides, is open on the burner inlet side and it has a 6" stack off the opposite end., that is for 4 tube burners, with 2 burners maybe 6" in from each side and only 3' flame length, a 4" stack should be good. Maybe you could sell the burners separately and make the rest at a far lower cost than buying a 4' finisher with the tube burners. I don't know what others get but Leader charges $3200 for a 2x4 finisher complete.

[maple flats]

There are several companies, here's a link to just one https://custompipeburners.com/Straight-Pipe-Burners/5
I only googled tube burners, I am not familiar with this company but they have 44" burners (36" flame) for $250 each.

[motowbrowne]

Thanks Dave! If my dealer won't work with me on returning this, I'll probably go that route.

[n8hutch]

My Advice is to finish the syrup on your rig, and filter it right away and them package in bulk, weather it be 5 gallon containers or 15 or 40, any unnecessary time spent reheating cold near up or syrup to filter is miserable in my opinion. Once you get rid of all those steps you will be amazed how much more time you have. Get some kind of a water jacketed Canner to heat your syrup up in when you want to package it in retail containers.

[DuncanFTGC/SS]

Here's one that generates 210,000 BTU, the same place has burners from 55,000 to at lease 210,000 BTU, all at decent prices. [/url]

I'm using two of those 210,000 burners for my main pan, love them!



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[motowbrowne]

My Advice is to finish the syrup on your rig, and filter it right away and them package in bulk, weather it be 5 gallon containers or 15 or 40, any unnecessary time spent reheating cold near up or syrup to filter is miserable in my opinion. Once you get rid of all those steps you will be amazed how much more time you have. Get some kind of a water jacketed Canner to heat your syrup up in when you want to package it in retail containers.

I think this is probably the direction I should go.

Can anyone using a water jacket canner with a 220 volt element share their experience in how long it takes to heat syrup? The one I got a quote on is a 27 gallon.

[motowbrowne]

Also, is there a reasonably priced container option for bulk storage? I'm not super keen on hot packing plastic. I imagine stainless barrels are the best, but I would imagine they're not particularly cheap.

[Mead Maple]

I always take mine off a little heavy, it does not make any sense to me to take it off early and finish it on something that is way more inefficient and time consuming. When I have enough to filter I reheat on a turkey fryer, adjust density and run it through my press into the bottler.

If you have a water jacketed bottler or system that will not make more niter you could take off a little over density, heat and filter into a larger container. When you want to bottle just but it into your bottler and heat to around 185 and bottle. There is no need to filter it again if you are not creating more niter.

I take mine off heavy as well after watching a smoky lake video. This allows me to draw off some sweet from the pan in a separate container hot and filtered. I then use that (sweet) but lower sugar material to dilute and bring the brix down to the appropriate degree. This also adds to my syrup total for that session and it’s filtered just like the syrup I drew off.

I used to use my turkey burner to reheat/finish/bottle but now I use my homemade filter/bottler on my wood stove and heat to temp and proper density.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200401/36e839008c3abee31e8181420814acd5.jpg
Its based off a leader/mason canner but is made of thick stainless so it heats up so much more evenly and doesn’t create niter


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[maple flats]

Whether it creates more niter is dependent on whether in the heating process you evaporated more moisture away or had an unusually hot spot while heating. The hot spot causes it faster, but if you loose much more water there are then minerals that settle because the syrup went past saturation.

[Wolfcreek Maple]

We have a LaPierre 29 gallon water jacket canner with dual elements it
takes about 2 hours to heat up syrup to 186 ,if its full.

[motowbrowne]

We have a LaPierre 29 gallon water jacket canner with dual elements it
takes about 2 hours to heat up syrup to 186 ,if its full.

Thank you, that's very helpful.

[motowbrowne]

Just spoke to Jim at CDL Wisconsin. He was of the opinion that I shouldn't use a water jacketed canner for reheating. Said it was only designed for maintaining temp. Even the dual element 220volt model. Kinda confusing.

[maple flats]

While I never timed how long it takes for my 16 gal WJ Smoky Lake WJ bottler to heat, it helped a lot after I made a cover for holding the heat in the bottler. I made it using 1" rigid foam insulation. The heating element controller remains outside of the enclosure but the rest is all covered, top, sides and front including the part out front over the bottling shelf. It makes the heating process much faster (and more efficient). To assemble it I used 2.5" long screws. I just cut the pieces and screwed the corners together. The top in laid on after and weighted down using a length of 2x6, the front bottom cover is propped up from the bottling shelf.

[Wolfcreek Maple]

Yes seems confusing we use ours all time for reheating.We have used ours for 4 years now no issues at all.It uses same elements as a hot water "heater".

[motowbrowne]

Talked to another dealer who said I was barking up the wrong tree. Suggested I'd need to heat elsewhere, then filter into the canner and that the canner wouldn't heat syrup. She did admit that they'd never tried though.

Dave, I was thinking that insulation would help, even just wrapping it in towels.

[n8hutch]

Heating 29 gallons is going to take a long time no doubt. But if you just put 5 or 10 at a time in there it should be fine. I fill mostly 5 gallon hot packed pails, I do have a 15 gallon stainless barrel also. When I want to pack syrup I use my propane bottler with steam pan, it heats 5 gallons in about a half hour with 50° syrup, might take 45 or more if your syrup is 25°.
If I fill it full it takes much longer, also of note once you get it up to temperature it heats the next batch up much faster.
I have all intentions of replacing my Small canner with a water Jacketed electric one, even if it takes 2 hours to heat 25 gallons I can plan for it and you dont have to worry about it going over temp like you do with propane so in theory you could start heating and go do something else for awhile.

Besides canning up 25 gallons would be a once a month thing on average.

[Sugarmaker]

Ryan,
Your operation is approximately the same size as ours, 180 gallons of syrup.
I take off syrup a little heavy from the evaporator and adjust the density if needed after draw off prior to filtering still staying a little on the heavy side. I temporarily store the bulk syrup in 2.5 gallon containers. In the freezer for long term.
In the canner which is 10 gallons and propane fired. I only bring the syrup to 185 F ish. I check the density again and adjust (thin) as needed. I do a final filter with just several layers of cheese cloth on the fill port.
Time to come up to temp depends on ambient temp maybe 1 hour ish.
Regards,
Chris

[maple flats]

That's what I do, fill the canner, fill the water jacket and cover it with my insulation cover. With that running I do other things that always need doing and I check back once in a while until the temperature is at 185-187. I then verify density, draw a grade sample bottle and start bottling. During bottling the cover is off.