Confused

[ken49663]

Small scale, only 20 taps this year. I'm running my sap through RO twice to bring my sugar content up to 8%. with 17 gallons of this concentrate I'm only getting a gallon of syrup. This does not match the Jones chart? Any ideas? It's just not making sense to me.

[ecolbeck]

How are you measuring your concentrated and finished products? Temperature? Density?

[ken49663]

Both, I run it up to 219, and then check the density.
Density on the sap

[ecolbeck]

That does seem odd. I suspect there is an error in one of the measurements (original/final volumes, original/final densities).

[30AcreWoods]

Have you checked for sugar in your permeate? Sometimes the membranes fail/crack - it can be really hard to spot - and you loose some sugar that way. I always check my permeate to be certain is is all water each time I run my RO.

[ken49663]

Thank you, I'll check that today. at 8% concentrate It's still not right. Last week I had 80 gallons of sap and only ended up with a gallon of syrup. Could I have a bad hydrometer ? It's the only thing I can think of.

[ecolbeck]

Have you checked for sugar in your permeate? Sometimes the membranes fail/crack - it can be really hard to spot - and you loose some sugar that way. I always check my permeate to be certain is is all water each time I run my RO.

Thats a good point. Ken, are you measuring the raw sap or the post RO sap?

[ken49663]

I'm checking the sap at every stage. I'm obsessive about it.

[ecolbeck]

Thank you, I'll check that today. at 8% concentrate It's still not right. Last week I had 80 gallons of sap and only ended up with a gallon of syrup. Could I have a bad hydrometer ? It's the only thing I can think of.

That seems like a possibility but these are really large errors that a slight shift in the hydrometer couldn’t account for.

[spud]

Small scale, only 20 taps this year. I'm running my sap through RO twice to bring my sugar content up to 8%. with 17 gallons of this concentrate I'm only getting a gallon of syrup. This does not match the Jones chart? Any ideas? It's just not making sense to me.

Drop your hydrometer in cold water. If it’s calibrated correctly then it will read 0. Assuming it’s calibrated then check your sap.

Spud

[GeneralStark]

Last week I had 80 gallons of sap and only ended up with a gallon of syrup.

That's actually not that unreasonable if you are having low sugar content in the sap this year like may of us. I had one boil where I made 10 gal. from 1000 gal of sap...

[doocat]

Is that 80 gallons of “raw” sap? If your at 1% sugar a gallon is right. You always loose a little through each process, ro, boil, etc.

[ken49663]

Water reads zero, fist pass through RO is at 4%. I will measure exactly how much 8% sap I end up with. Thanks guys, I appreciate all of your help!!

[30AcreWoods]

Check your initial - pre RO sugar content. Like General Stark said, we are all having low sugar years. But, I've gotten more sap than previous years, so I'm going to net out making more syrup this year. Really happy to have an RO!

[ken49663]

Thanks 30acre, I'm at 2% so I'm doing pretty good for woods maples.

[Jeff E]

If all other elements are ok (measuring correctly both sugar and volume) then your losing syrup somewhere. Might you have a crack in the evaporator that is leaking into the fire box?

[carls47807]

Are you starting with 68 gallons of sap, going to a final volume of 17 gallons after the RO, and making exactly 1 gallon of syrup?

When concentrating to 8%, small errors in measurements make a big difference in your calculations. Even leaving the RO full after concentrating (instead of running it dry) can
waste a pint of syrup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ken49663]

Are you starting with 68 gallons of sap, going to a final volume of 17 gallons after the RO, and making exactly 1 gallon of syrup?

When concentrating to 8%, small errors in measurements make a big difference in your calculations. Even leaving the RO full after concentrating (instead of running it dry) can
waste a pint of syrup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is correct, It was actually about 132 ounces. I'm trying again today and being very careful on knowing exactly how much sap I'm boiling.

[Sugarmaker]

My rough numbers, no magic here: 8% into 86 =10.75 gallons of concentrate to make a gallon of syrup. Are you getting good sugar percentage numbers? Your checking instruments calibrated?? I have seen things like short stem sap hydrometers that are hard to read.
17 gallons into 86 would mean you had more like 5% concentrate? Maybe?? Also your syrup density check at finished syrup? At 219 you may be a little heavy? Water boils here at 210 ish so syrup comes around 217.
Just some ideas from a old man.
Regards,
Chris

[DrTimPerkins]

What are you using to measure sap density? Does the instrument have ATC or are you measuring and correcting for temperature (and if so, how)? Are you calibrating the instrument?

How are you measuring concentrate density? ATC or correcting for temp? How?

Are you measuring permeate sugar? How?

How are you measuring syrup density? Correcting for temperature?

How are you measuring volumes for sap, concentrate and syrup?

What are your neighbors who make syrup saying about sap sugar this year?

[ken49663]

I did not adjust for temperature. I purchased a hydrometer from Roth's. I must have made an error on the last run with my calculations. I just ran the sap that I currently have through the RO and ended up with 8.75 gallons of sap that is reading just above 8%. I'll see what I get out of this batch.
You guys are great for all of the input and I really appreciate it. I'd be lost without this forum.

[ken49663]

21314

Hydrometer reading

[DrTimPerkins]

https://www.rothsugarbush.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Temperature-Correction-Chart-for-Maple-Sap-and-Syrup-Hydrometers.pdf

You may need to correct for temperature depending on what the sap temp was. Use the link above.

[spud]

https://www.rothsugarbush.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Temperature-Correction-Chart-for-Maple-Sap-and-Syrup-Hydrometers.pdf

You may need to correct for temperature depending on what the sap temp was. Use the link above.

Thanks for posting the chart Dr. Tim. This chart is essential to ALL sap sellers. As the season goes on the sap temp goes up. I brought this to the attention of my past sap buyer and he wanted nothing to do with it. My sap used to get pumped into a sap truck and then pumped out of the sap truck 30 minutes later and then tested for sugar. As the sap runs through the pumps it warms up. Dishonest sap buyers will use this as an advantage to underpay.

Spud