Sap flow question

[ShaunG]

As anyone in Mass know there really hasn't been a freeze thaw pattern. I'm on buckets and bags and mostly red maples. But sap flow has been nonexistent for probably about 8 or 9 days. We have had a few days of colder temperatures I'm just now getting a trickle.
So 2 questions

Is this happening to everyone else?

And will it start up again, or is that to long of a time to stop?

[ecolbeck]

I am further west and a little higher up. We had a hard freeze last weekend and a few weak freezes this week. Sap flow has really slowed. The warm days are causing bacterial counts to jump and plug up the tap holes.

[ShaunG]

So do you think the season is done?

[tgormley358]

I’m wondering the same thing and have no answers, but for me it has been 6 weeks (feb 9 tapped), which is as long as the season normally lasts around here, so I’m ready to call it a season if it doesn’t pick up soon. I was expecting more early this week. I might still wait thru the weekend though since we have 2 more consecutive nights in the low-mid 20s

[ecolbeck]

I am going to boil this afternoon and then wait it out until after this weekend when a solid freeze is predicted. I tapped just over 3 weeks ago, so I have nothing to lose by waiting a little longer and hoping for the best.

[maple flats]

Reds usually do poorer on gravity, vacuum helps a lot, even if you can only get a small diaphragm pump, it will help your sap flow on Reds. If you even only have 10-15' of elevation drop 3/16 laterals can help too, more slope of course helps more. For those on buckets or bags, 6 weeks is generally considered your season, that is why tapping at the right time is most important for you.

[berkshires]

Is this happening to everyone else?

For me it's been a bit more complicated. I tapped on Feb 10. Despite predicted warmth, we actually got a prolonged cold spell when it never got warm enough to flow for me (foothills of the Berkshires) until the last week of Feb, when I got a small run. Then the first week of March was perfect, and I got a big run of over 5 gallons per tap. The second week was too warm, and I got a bit, but not much. Hoping this week will be better (I can only get to my sugar bush on weekends).



And will it start up again, or is that to long of a time to stop?

I'm not sure I understand your question. The trees don't just stop after a warm or cold spell. They will do their thing anytime the temperatures line up right. The only other thing that affects what you get are whether the tap holes have started to dry up (you don't say when you tapped, or what your setup is like, so no way to comment on that for you). If you tapped two weeks ago, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to go until the trees get buddy where you are.

For me, having tapped five weeks ago, my trees may be starting to dry up. I'm hoping that the very cold temps the first couple of weeks may stretch things out a bit, as next week (according to current forecasts) looks primo in my neck of the woods.

Cheers,

GO

[Sugar Bear]

As anyone in Mass know there really hasn't been a freeze thaw pattern. I'm on buckets and bags and mostly red maples. But sap flow has been nonexistent for probably about 8 or 9 days. We have had a few days of colder temperatures I'm just now getting a trickle.
So 2 questions

Is this happening to everyone else?

And will it start up again, or is that to long of a time to stop?

I would say you would have a good chance if you were tapping Sugar Maples but since you are tapping Red Maples I will say no. No worthy sap from them.

Others "might" tell you that there is no difference between the season of the Red Maple and the Sugar Maple, but I would say that if that is true then it is true on the upland slopes of north central Vermont where much of the research between the two trees has been done.

The more Boreal ones region is, the closer together all plant life becomes. Until ... well you eventually have nothing but pack ice and no plants. In which case all plant life is identical as in non existent. Sorry to be philosophical but philosophy presents reality about as well as anything.

The more southerly you go in the range of the two trees the more difference there is in the sap flow schedule between the two types of trees.

There is definitely a difference between the two here in Southwest CT and in the southern portion of the Mid Hudson Valley.

I would say Stowe MA is far closer to the Geo Climate of Southwest CT then it is to Stowe VT.

Hope that helps

[bill m]

My buckets are doing nothing this week even after we had a couple nights with a good freeze. they were the last to be drilled, about March 5th. My tubing is running ok, new spouts every year. Sugar content has dropped off, about 1.6% now.

[tgormley358]

Same here in Harvard - buckets this week are all dry, but 5/16 tubing is still running, slowly. I’ll probably get 30-40 gallons tonite and boil. No need for RO. I’ll take it.

[Ravenseye]

I've had very little for the last week or so. I'll take what I get through this weekend and call it quits I think. I have a long commute and just don't have an easy way to make time for small amounts.

[DrTimPerkins]

Tapholes on gravity buckets/bags typically last about 6 weeks unless you get really hot weather during that time, which could dry out tapholes abruptly. That timeframe is true of red maple and sugar maple. I suspect that some of you are at or past that time if you tapped in early-February. In short, those tapholes are done for the season. Tubing (with good sanitation) will get you a bit more. Vacuum tubing with excellent sanitation will almost double that time as long as weather conditions are not terribly unfavorable.

One thing we've found in our measurements of red maples on vacuum over the past few years is that they are extremely variable (it is likely to be the same for gravity collection). One taphole will produce huge amounts of sap, the next one very little. This is true for trees that are next to other, or even in two tapholes in the same tree. Why is this? We aren't sure yet, but it has nothing to do with direction of tapping or whether we tap higher or lower (above or below the lateral line). UVM PMRC (mostly Dr. Abby) will be doing a good amount of more research with red maple over the next couple of years.

[Biz]

I am looking forward to the results on red maples. Prior to discovering 3/16 lines and vacuum from gravity or small diaphragm pumps, I did not bother tapping red maples since they produced very little sap. Now I have nearly 2/3 of my 200 taps on red maples with gravity or vacuum and the sap production is close to that of my sugar maples - although sugar content is slightly lower. This year I am getting a really nice flavor from my syrup, caramel-like. I see a lot of land in flat areas near rivers or swamps that has a high concentration or red maples, what a great way to pull some money out of an otherwise worthless piece of land.

Dave

[DrTimPerkins]

I am looking forward to the results on red maples.

The ongoing project from last year and this year is a preliminary study to compare sap yields and sugar content of cohabiting sugar and red maple trees, and to look at the change in yield from one versus two taps in red maple stems on vacuum (we already know that relationship in sugar maple).

Dr. Abby's project over the next 3 years focuses on comparing sap yield, sugar content, and syrup flavor from cohabiting sugar and red maple trees on vacuum. We basically have to build two complete vacuum tubing systems side-by-side. One will collect from ONLY red maple trees, the other will collect ONLY from sugar maple trees. As part of that, Abby will try to determine if and when red maple sap goes "buddy" compared to sugar maple sap.

[Sugar Bear]

I am looking forward to the results on red maples. Prior to discovering 3/16 lines and vacuum from gravity or small diaphragm pumps, I did not bother tapping red maples since they produced very little sap. Now I have nearly 2/3 of my 200 taps on red maples with gravity or vacuum and the sap production is close to that of my sugar maples - although sugar content is slightly lower. This year I am getting a really nice flavor from my syrup, caramel-like. I see a lot of land in flat areas near rivers or swamps that has a high concentration or red maples, what a great way to pull some money out of an otherwise worthless piece of land.

Dave

Its important to recognize that a good stand of large sugar maples will frequently flux twice the sugar content as a good stand of red maples.

If not twice as much then much more so rather then slightly more sugar content then red maples.

If you do not have RO make sure you have a LOT of firewood.

[Sugar Bear]

Tapholes on gravity buckets/bags typically last about 6 weeks unless you get really hot weather during that time, which could dry out tapholes abruptly. That timeframe is true of red maple and sugar maple. I suspect that some of you are at or past that time if you tapped in early-February. In short, those tapholes are done for the season. Tubing (with good sanitation) will get you a bit more. Vacuum tubing with excellent sanitation will almost double that time as long as weather conditions are not terribly unfavorable.

One thing we've found in our measurements of red maples on vacuum over the past few years is that they are extremely variable (it is likely to be the same for gravity collection). One taphole will produce huge amounts of sap, the next one very little. This is true for trees that are next to other, or even in two tapholes in the same tree. Why is this? We aren't sure yet, but it has nothing to do with direction of tapping or whether we tap higher or lower (above or below the lateral line). UVM PMRC (mostly Dr. Abby) will be doing a good amount of more research with red maple over the next couple of years.

My experience here appears to me, that a warm spell during a six week period will permanently shut down a tap hole dropped to a bucket on a Red Maple easier then it will on a tap hole dropped to a bucket on a Sugar Maple.

Sometimes I wonder if it because the cellulose of a Sugar Maple is substantially more dense/harder then the cellulose of a Red Maple, and is so across the profile of the entire stumpage. Even more so in the sap wood. Thus it "might" be slightly more impervious to organisms that shut down or dry out the tap hole. Very much like Red Maple lumber "spalts" significantly faster then sugar maple lumber does.

HMMM???