Little help with cloudy syrup

[tpathoulas]

I recently purchased the RO Bucket, RB15. I used it for my first two batch cooks of the season, last week. The RO was wonderful, half my water out and a lot less wood and time burned. Problem is, both batches turned out cloudy. I have filtered using both old and new filters. Ran hot water through before filtering. Used multiple pre-filters with each filtering. I have reheated and filtered again and again, without change. I contacted Carl at the RO Bucket. He's been very prompt with replies and is really thinking about what the cause may be. The syrup tastes good but looks bad. This past weekend I cooked without using the RO Bucket. My syrup is clear as can be.
Ideas/thoughts? Is it the trees? Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks

[30AcreWoods]

I assume you washed the system with permeate/non chlorinated water prior to using it? Was the concentrate mostly clear (perhaps a green tint) and did it taste "normal" (very sweet sap)? I usually pre-treat my filters with steamed sap - and not water (especially chlorinated) - prior to filtering. Do you have a paper or wool filter? An obvious question: is your syrup hydrometer properly calibrated?

[MapleMark753]

Well, that stinks, sorry to hear about your cloudy batches of syrup.
Others may have ideas about your filtering.
What temperature are you bottling/canning at? Fine niter (makes syrup cloudy) can precipitate if you're bottling at say 195 degrees or higher than that. Or, if you're using glass, I've seen cool glass and 190 degree syrup precipitate fine niter too. Just my thoughts. If its either of these, bottling between 180 and 190, and heating the glass may help.
A warm oven or hot water can heat the glass.
good luck
Mark

[tpathoulas]

Good thoughts, thanks.
To answer a few of the questions.
I did flush the system prior to use just as Carl instructed. The concentrate and permeate were clear although initially the permeate appeared to come out cloudy but it dissipated being just very fine air bubbles. I use orlon filters with paper prefilters(4). I run hot water through them prior to filtering. I don't use a hydrometer. I use a thermometer and a refractometer and got to 66.5% Brix.
I bottle in glass at 185 degrees. I've made the mistake of bottling over 190 in the past so I watch the temp closely.
Thanks guys

[Clinkis]

I’ve been running RO’s for several years including the small style like the RO bucket and now larger commercial style RO’s and I’ve never seen the RO cause the syrup to be cloudy. I’m thinking it’s just coincidence and most likely it’s something in the filtering and bottling process that’s the issue. Does the cloudiness settle out if you leave it for a few days? Unless there was some contamination in the sap to begin with but this would likely give you of flavours. I would try another batch and see what happens.

[tpathoulas]

Thanks for the reply.
I've had the near finished syrup in my fridge for over a week. Very little has settled. I finished one gallon yesterday and it is very cloudy after filtering. I made a batch of syrup, not using the RO and it is clear as can be, using the same filtering process for both batches.

I’ve been running RO’s for several years including the small style like the RO bucket and now larger commercial style RO’s and I’ve never seen the RO cause the syrup to be cloudy. I’m thinking it’s just coincidence and most likely it’s something in the filtering and bottling process that’s the issue. Does the cloudiness settle out if you leave it for a few days? Unless there was some contamination in the sap to begin with but this would likely give you of flavours. I would try another batch and see what happens.

[ecolbeck]

Just want to second the notion that there’s no reason that RO would cause cloudy syrup. If it did, then everyone would have the same complaint. Something else is occurring that hopefully isn’t too frustrating to figure out. Is it possible that you accidentally turned your filter inside out between batches? Are you heating, filtering, and bottling in that order?

[tpathoulas]

I am having a very hard time believing it is the RO, and I am doing a test batch with it tonight. The only reason I'm going down that road is because I have this fleeting memory of reading in one of these forums that somebody thought someone had a bad membrane which was causing them to have cloudy syrup. I do turn my filters inside out to wash them but don't think I filtered through a reversed filter. Thats an idea I hadn't thought of. But, I did use a variety of filters, both new and used, with the same result on two different batches of syrup. A lot of cloudy syrup. On a happy note, I have almost 800 gallons of sap collected to start cooking tomorrow night! #sleepisoverrated

[ecolbeck]

Let us know how it works out. A faulty membrane would likely pass sugar into the permeate, a condition unrelated to cloudiness in the finished product. What about your canning technique? Are you heating, filtering, and then bottling?

[Sugarmaker]

Good luck finding the issue keep us informed. I dont run a R.O. of any type. and know very little about them. But if you have 800 gal of sap to run through a R.O. Bucket it may be a challenge? Thats 16 gallons of syrup! I dont know what the rate is. Sounds like a lot of boiling.
As far as cloudy syrup. My guess is that it is in your filtering process somewhere. Maybe even some pictures of your set up might help. These things are sometimes hard to figure out. But lots of experience on here too. I have filtered 1000's of gallons of syrup through cone filters over the years. Usually with very good success. As othere have said I dont think the R.O should be a factor. Anything happening in the R.O. should be concentrated into syrup, and then will be filtered out during the filtering process. You may have one bad felt. Mark each filter and track the results.
Keep boiling!
Regards,
Chris

[buckeye gold]

I still think your just dealing with a year where your sugar sand is finer and a different consistency, it's not you. I had a year like that about 4 years ago and never was able to completely resolve it. Since it has been good and I've had no problems. In gravity filtering there is only so much you can do. Multiple filterings are the best approach, but sometimes you just have to accept what you have.

[tpathoulas]

Thanks for all the thought that went int o my problem. I called Roth Sugarbush in Cadott, WI. They are a Maple Syrup business selling supplies and just about everything maple syrup. When I explained my problem, they told me they have had a number of calls wondering about my same problem. Misery loves company!
I have most of my cloudy syrup to just below 66%. I think I will let it sit for a while longer and see what settles then finish, filter and see what happens.
Thanks again
P.S. I cooked about 275 gallons today. My little RO was pumping. I have my concentrate line going right into my pan. I had to add some sap occasionally to keep pace but it keeps up pretty well for a little bucket. Plus I have a lot of clean water. Going to cook hard this weekend and pull the taps on Saturday and Sunday.