Guzzler Pulling 0 Vacuum

[WolfCreekMaple]

Good morning,

This season is our second season using our Guzzler sap puller. Last year when we first set it up we were able to pull about 10" of vacuum with a LOT of leaks in our system.

This year we installed a second gauge closer to the sap puller instead of walking 100' to the gauge that was already installed.

So far we are pulling 0" and we can't figure out why.

We replaced the diaphram and both of the valves thinking that may be it and nada.

Sure we have SOME leaks, but nothing that would cause 0 in my opinion.

Frustrating. We brought it to the company we bought it from and they called the company that made the pump. They said that if the system is dry it may not show on the gauge but we had it running on a day where the sap was flowing and it was still at 0.

To test we made a dummy line at home. A 3 foot piece of pipe with a gauge on the end. Hooked it onto the pump and we were able to pull 15 inches (which is NOT the max of this pump).

So, do you guys think its the pump or is it our lines? We are taking out all of our fittings and putting new thread tape on just in case there is leakage around those.


I appreciate your time!

[Polaris1]

If you dead head pump an pull 15" it must be in your mainline lateral line system. Check make sure all taps are in. Which I'm sure you have. Do you have just 1 mainline?

[BAP]

Have you taken the pump apart again to check and make sure that one of the parts didn’t get put together run or didn’t quite get seated in place correctly? Sometimes, something will look like it is in right but actually didn’t quite fit in place all the way. If you are pulling 15” on a short piece, then start at the pump and walk up your line checking every fitting in the mainline carefully. I have seen mainline fittings, connectors, tees, y’s, that due to heat or cold, pull apart every so slightly, that they look like they are together but actually are loosing all the vacuum. Then move onto your smaller lines.

[WolfCreekMaple]

That will be the next step thank you both! Now if it’s not pulling enough vacuum to make noise then how do I test the fittings and saddles of my main line?

We have three main lines but no shut off for each. This grove was put together before we owned it and that is one thing that was not done.

[DrTimPerkins]

Will it hold vacuum at 15" Hg deadheaded? Does it pull up to 15" Hg on the exit stroke, but fall off immediately. Small crack or tear in the diaphragm? Inspect it very carefully. If it'll hold 15" deadheaded, then check the lines. Shut-offs on each line would help leaks down quite a lot.

[Polaris1]

I had same issue. No vacuum. I have 4 mains going to a bigger main. I added valves on all 4 lines. shut them all and checked vacuum then opened 1 at a time fixed leaks that I had mostly on tee's until I got vacuum. I have vacuum now but not where I want it. It's gonna be harder now cause they are micro leaks. Easy way I found to check diaphragm is pull cover and put pump on down stroke and fill with water. I found a leak like that before.

[WolfCreekMaple]

Will it hold vacuum at 15" Hg deadheaded? Does it pull up to 15" Hg on the exit stroke, but fall off immediately. Small crack or tear in the diaphragm? Inspect it very carefully. If it'll hold 15" deadheaded, then check the lines. Shut-offs on each line would help leaks down quite a lot.

Deadheaded it does not hold the vacuum. At first it would drop fast as soon as we turned it off. Then we replaced the valves and diaphram. Now it goes down much slower but still does not hold. I didn’t think it should hold once turned off but should it stay at 15? Also it’s not a consistent 15. During its cycles it fluctuates from 15 to 14.5. Should it stay right at 15?

Thank you all for the advice. I’m really hoping to figure this out.

The valves and diaphragm are brand new. Only 5 days on the machine. I hope they don’t have crackwith propane you find leaks by using soap and water and spraying it on fittings. Obviously not gonna use soap but is there anything I can spray on fittings to detect leaks on the pump?

[WolfCreekMaple]

I had same issue. No vacuum. I have 4 mains going to a bigger main. I added valves on all 4 lines. shut them all and checked vacuum then opened 1 at a time fixed leaks that I had mostly on tee's until I got vacuum. I have vacuum now but not where I want it. It's gonna be harder now cause they are micro leaks. Easy way I found to check diaphragm is pull cover and put pump on down stroke and fill with water. I found a leak like that before.

I will have to try that trick!

[Polaris1]

Something I also had happen was a piece of plastic caught behind valve which wouldn't let it seal. Plastic was from drilling mainline saddles. I tipped pump up while running an poured sap in it to try to flush it out. I have umbrella valves. Pump came with duck bill. Duck bill didn't seem to close right. If you put your hand over inlet it would have vac on the up stroke but loose it on the down. Look at sap in lines and it would move back an forth never really went anywhere. With umbrella valves vac is constant pull.

[WolfCreekMaple]

Something I also had happen was a piece of plastic caught behind valve which wouldn't let it seal. Plastic was from drilling mainline saddles. I tipped pump up while running an poured sap in it to try to flush it out. I have umbrella valves. Pump came with duck bill. Duck bill didn't seem to close right. If you put your hand over inlet it would have vac on the up stroke but loose it on the down. Look at sap in lines and it would move back an forth never really went anywhere. With umbrella valves vac is constant pull.

We are seeing that exact thing in our lines! We may switch to umbrella valves then. Thank you for your advice!! It for sure does not keep pulling on the second phase.

[Polaris1]

I had to order mine from Bosworth company. Nobody carries the umbrella valves. Very good to deal with. Got them in a few days. Valves are installed correctly right?

[WolfCreekMaple]

I had to order mine from Bosworth company. Nobody carries the umbrella valves. Very good to deal with. Got them in a few days. Valves are installed correctly right?

Yeah according to the diagram in the manual. My boyfriend is a autobody tech so taking things apart and back together is his specialty. The ONLY thing I can think of is the duckbill valves have 3 "flaps" and maybe the orientation is a determining factor in vacuum?

I talked to my boyfriend and he said the umbrella valves would not fit in our style pump *shrug*

[Polaris1]

Is it a true Guzzler pump made by Bosworth? They have the 400 and the 500. Difference being 400 has 4 bolt inlet/outlet and the 500 has a 6 bolt flange.

[WolfCreekMaple]

It is a true Guzzler from Bosworth :) the inlets/outlet have 6 bolts per (I have had to unscrew and screw these back on three times haha!) So are you saying I should be able to put umbrella valves on?

[WolfCreekMaple]

Is it a true Guzzler pump made by Bosworth? They have the 400 and the 500. Difference being 400 has 4 bolt inlet/outlet and the 500 has a 6 bolt flange.

Do you have a link for those valves so I can show the SO?

[Polaris1]

Bosworth company in RI. Yes you have to by the kit it'll come with valves, stop, O-rings. I put them in mine. Aren't they fun to pull apart!:lol:

[WolfCreekMaple]

Bosworth company in RI. Yes you have to by the kit it'll come with valves, stop, O-rings. I put them in mine. Aren't they fun to pull apart!:lol:

It's more of getting the nuts back onto the bolts when your putting it back together thats the PIA! HAHA

[Father & Son]

Ok back to the 0 pressure question. My single diaphragm Bosworth Guzzler pulls 27 after finding all the leaks. This year when I first started I was getting a zero reading. Working backwards from my pump there is a strainer, a vacuum gauge, then a ball valve. After the pump is wet I shut the valve and the pressure builds to 27. Then I turn the pump off and see if it holds 27. This tells me if the pump and diaphragm are OK. Then I walk the mainline and check the saddles. If a lateral is running very fast that lateral has a leak. Do that for all the laterals, fix the big leaks you can find, and recheck the gauge. With the big leaks fixed you should see a significant vacuum increase. At this point if you are showing some vacuum you can recheck the saddles, walk the fast running laterals, and now some of the leaks can be heard. I had so many squirrel chews this year it took over 3 hours to find and fix leaks on a 100 tap system. Take the time and you will see great vacuum levels. Sorry this was so long winded.

[WolfCreekMaple]

SOOOOO

We found our issue on Saturday. We somehow missed a whole lateral line of 8 taps.

Now pump is running great 23-27" of vacuum. Thank you guys I feel SOOOOO silly!!! But I'm glad we found the issue.

[DrTimPerkins]

Yup...that'll do it. :)

Glad you found it and it wasn't something bigger.