5/16 drops on 3/16 lats

[peteinvermont]

This is season 4 on many of our 3/16 lines, so before tapping I was cutting out both the taps and the drops. While doing that I thought I'd experiment with using 5/16" drops. For those of you doing this, visually, what do you see in the drops? I know the drop won't be full, but during Sundays good run, the 2yr old 3/16 drops showed sap moving through the CV. On the brand new 5/16 drops, there was sap in the bottom of the drops, but you couldn't see any sap moving through the CV. Normal, or did I fumble somehow?

[maple flats]

All of my taps are 5/16 with 5/16 drops, then about 60% are into 3/16 laterals and the rest are on 5/16 lines. I can see sap moving thru the clear CV taps, but have to look closely to see the sap running down the drop line, then as each enters the lateral I see the sap again.

[peteinvermont]

Thanks Flats -

So you can see a little sap moving through the clear CV's on a 5/16 drop with 3/16 lateral when the sap is running - meaning everything is under vac?

[maple flats]

I can, but you should know that all of my tubing is on mechanical vacuum, both the 3/16 and the 5/16. My mains have 24 and 25" of vacuum at the far end, away from the vacuum pump but then my 5/16 have 3-7 taps each and none are over 60' in length. On the opposite side I have 3/16, coming off those mains and then pulling from below the main. The longest of those so far is about 400', but Monday I plan to add 2 new lines going up to maybe 550' in length, also pulling from below the mainlines. I've watched the flows which at up to 400' look good, but I have not installed a gauge at the far end. I think I will put on at least 2 gauges on Monday, one will only be about 200-250' long and about level with the main, the other one I will put a gauge on my longest line, which will be maybe 550' long and about 5 or 6' below the mainline. On that I hope to see 12" vacuum, but it might be even lower, this is for a non scientific test. I will post what I find after a few days for it to run.

[Mead Maple]

This is season 4 on many of our 3/16 lines, so before tapping I was cutting out both the taps and the drops. While doing that I thought I'd experiment with using 5/16" drops. For those of you doing this, visually, what do you see in the drops? I know the drop won't be full, but during Sundays good run, the 2yr old 3/16 drops showed sap moving through the CV. On the brand new 5/16 drops, there was sap in the bottom of the drops, but you couldn't see any sap moving through the CV. Normal, or did I fumble somehow?

I saw this exact same thing on my exact same setup as you. Just as you described it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[peteinvermont]

I saw this exact same thing on my exact same setup as you. Just as you described it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, thats good to know. When I put the 5/16" drops in I expected to see 3 things:

1. Sap moving through the CVa
2. Sap moving down the 3/16 lats
3. Sap in the bottom of the 5/16 drop

I just didn't get #1 and I'm concerned. I have about 500 taps in this section of our woods. All are on 3/16 with brand new CV's. Some have brand new 5/16 drops and some have 1 or 2yr old 3/16" drops.

It ran pretty strong on Sunday and we gathered about 350 gallons. It was our first run of the year, so I might just need to temper my expectations - but not seeing the sap flow though the 5/16 drops and seeing less sap in the tank after a good 24hr run made me wonder.

*For reference, last year I had around 460 taps all on new CV's and 3/16 lats and drops, and we typically gathered about 325 gallons each run, totalling about 5800 gallons of sap from this stand total.

[DrTimPerkins]

This is season 4 on many of our 3/16 lines, ...

First: I assume your 3/16" lines are on good slope, you're keeping them really tight (leak-free), and that you're getting good vacuum at the top when the sap is running?

Second: So you cut in new drops and spouts....have you cleaned these lines in any way over the past few years? If not, go and replace all the unions too. Plugs will develop in 3/16" systems anywhere there are fittings (drops, tees, unions, entrances to mainlines).

Third: It is pretty difficult to really see sap running in a spout or line and know how much is moving through the line. Short-term observation doesn't always tell you much in such systems.

[DrTimPerkins]

1. Sap moving through the CVa
2. Sap moving down the 3/16 lats
3. Sap in the bottom of the 5/16 drop

I just didn't get #1 and I'm concerned.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if you're getting #2 and #3, where else can the sap in the lateral lines and drop be coming from than #1?

[Mead Maple]

Pete all I can say is that upon initial tapping (Mon-Tues) I would watch the tap fill up for the first time as it was running while tapping. After that, you cannot see movement in my CDL (very) clear spouts at all. Sap would make its way to the bottom of the 5/16 line and almost stall at the T. I too was concerned about this at first but seeing the way sap was moving down the 3/16 I quickly stopped worrying. And because the first line I installed brand new in my woods I had missed some trees, I went back to tap and T in and when I would cut the line I would get a whoosh effect. This made my confidence jump because sap was flowing well and I knew I was pulling vacuum. I will also confirm this on the next warm up with new gauges I will have in place. Keep in mind though that everything I have described is on a brand new system. Regardless, I saw what you have described


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[peteinvermont]

First: I assume your 3/16" lines are on good slope, you're keeping them really tight (leak-free), and that you're getting good vacuum at the top when the sap is running?

Second: So you cut in new drops and spouts....have you cleaned these lines in any way over the past few years? If not, go and replace all the unions too. Plugs will develop in 3/16" systems anywhere there are fittings (drops, tees, unions, entrances to mainlines).

Third: It is pretty difficult to really see sap running in a spout or line and know how much is moving through the line. Short-term observation doesn't always tell you much in such systems.

Yes sir, leak free, good vacuum and plenty of slope.
I did change the T's as well. When I make the drops at home, I always put a new T on the bottom.
I'm beginning to think everything is fine. We gathered 625 gallons from around 490 taps on the last run, which is much more in line with what I was hoping for.

[peteinvermont]

Maybe I'm missing something, but if you're getting #2 and #3, where else can the sap in the lateral lines and drop be coming from than #1?

Its a valid question. I think the part that was concerning was simply that I can stand at a tree with a 3/16" drop and watch the ball moving in the CV. I can visually see the sap moving through the tap. (Or, maybe I see the bubbles, but either way - I see the magic happening)

On the same day, I still next to a tree with my new 5/16" drop, and couldn't see the ball moving.

[peteinvermont]

Pete all I can say is that upon initial tapping (Mon-Tues) I would watch the tap fill up for the first time as it was running while tapping. After that, you cannot see movement in my CDL (very) clear spouts at all. Sap would make its way to the bottom of the 5/16 line and almost stall at the T. I too was concerned about this at first but seeing the way sap was moving down the 3/16 I quickly stopped worrying. And because the first line I installed brand new in my woods I had missed some trees, I went back to tap and T in and when I would cut the line I would get a whoosh effect. This made my confidence jump because sap was flowing well and I knew I was pulling vacuum. I will also confirm this on the next warm up with new gauges I will have in place. Keep in mind though that everything I have described is on a brand new system. Regardless, I saw what you have described


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, thanks. It seems to be running strong and pulling good vacuum, so I'm going to assume its good. I haven't been able to get into the woods for a run since then due to work, but we're getting good volume.