RO Homemade System Problem?

[clifford5555]

So, I built my new RO system and of course it's time to boil some sap and it is not working right.

I think the problem might be the check valve elbow that came with each RO filter housing.

The directions from manufacturer say the check valve fitting is used on the Permeate Water outlet?

IS that correct?

I'm not getting any permeate out of my system, just a strong flow of sap in and out. I closed the Sap out line to build some pressure, got it up to 40 PSI and nothing came out of permeate line.

I shut it down, didn't want to wreck anything.

I got a 8800 pump and 2 100 GPD RO set in series with a 5 micron prefilter before the RO.

I'm wondering if I should just remove those check valves all together? Or should they be on the SAP line? Im definitely puzzled.

Thanks for any help.

[clifford5555]

So I did make a small adjustment. I switched the check valve elbows to the Sap lines out and the system started to work!

You can see the check valve elbows in the picture as they have the pink ring collar on them. (THE PIC IS BEFORE I MADE ANY ADJUSTMENTS)

BUT now it is literally producing 1 cup of permeate per hour. Like drip drip drip....

Pressure is only at about 30 PSI

I don't have a needle valve, just a inline ball valve quick connect fitting.

Please take a peak and tell me what to do.

Maybe go buy some non-check valve elbows? Will that fix all my issues?

210312103421035

anyways, this is my invention, kind of like The RO Bucket, except I added a board in there for mounting.

[ecolbeck]

I dont think you need check valves. My RO does not have any.

I might be wrong but I believe you have it plumbed incorrectly. It looks like the permeate line from your first membrane is plumbed into the input for the second membrane.

[clifford5555]

Hmm....This is the RO housing I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QTGYHB3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

The instructions tell you the check valve elbow they supplied goes on the Clean Water(permeate) out threads.
Please look at the filter and tell me what you think, especially if I got it hooked up wrong!

I may need to go to menards and see if I can find another elbow that will work, cuz I can't wait 3 days for 5 gallons of sap to filter. LMAO

Thanks

[ecolbeck]

Rethinking this. Perhaps the plumbing is correct but it looks like you have a restrictor on the permeate line?

[DRoseum]

You need a needle valve on the concentrate outlet line to build and control pressure and recovery rate (how much water you are rejecting). Also be sure to let system run for a few minutes, recirculating to your feed tank to work out all the air. Then you can close down the needle valve until you get up to working pressure of your membranes and approximately a 50/50 flow of concentrate and permeate.

[clifford5555]

I'll be honest, I put a inline quick connect valve on all 3 lines, 1 in and 2 out. Totally unnecessary. I just leave them all open except the Sap Out line I use for creating pressure, which is not working well.

I am betting those check valves is causing my pressure issues. Otherwise I don't see any leaks yet.

I'm gonna head to menards and see what I can find. Just realized these fittings are 1/8" threads to 1/4" quick connect....1/8" seems pretty rare size. Crossing fingers!

[DRoseum]

A ball valve will not give you the control to build the pressure you will need to get the membranes working. Put a needle valve on the concentrate line and your issues will go away.

[ecolbeck]

Perhaps you just need to ramp up the pressure some more. I am not sure of the numbers, but like DRoseum, I set mine so that the permeate and concentrate lines are flowing equally.

[carls47807]

If you can’t get over 100psi by closing the concentrate valve, you have an air leak in the suction side or your pump isn’t working properly. Test pressure out of the filter housing with no membranes and make sure you can get over 100psi.

To save yourself the headache later, mount your transformer on top of the pump, not in the bottom of the bucket. There’s 110v ac going into that thing! Drill some drain holes in it too if you haven’t already.


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[clifford5555]

So, I bought a needle valve brass fitting, it was only thing they had. And I can't get it connected without it leaking out the handle or the compression fittings on either side....this thing is a night mare. I've assembled this needle valve like 6 times now before posting.

So I still not sure what the problem is because now this new valve is leaking everywhere.

I'm gonna keep trying, hopefully I get it or you guys respond with a good solution by the time I come back!

thanks for the support so far!

[clifford5555]

Well, I think I wrecked the needle valve I bought. So back to the ball valve to do some testing.

Test 1: I took out 1 membrane and I ran the system thru just 1 empty housing, it took like 5 minutes, but the pressure did get to 100 psi, very slowly with the Sap valve 100% closed!

Test 2: I hooked up the system to just 1 RO filter and bypassed the empty filter. I was able to get some flow thru the RO filter, it was half way decent at about 50 psi.

Test 3: I hooked both RO filters back up and both loaded with membrane, I tried to run it once again in series as it was before...FAIL. it was back to no pressure and no permeate coming out even with Sap Line closed.

Test 4: I hooked the 2 RO filters up in parallel and ran it that way, I was able to get 60psi with Sap Valve closed, but still no permeate coming out! FAIL!

Test 5: I hooked up a ball valve between the 2 parallel RO filters, I am able to turn off 1 filter now and run it solo, Its the ONLY option to get some actual flow at about 70psi. It's still gonna take hours to do 5 gallons of sap!

So is my brand new pump junk? Defective? Or should I be adjusting something on the pump?

so frustrated guys

[clifford5555]

1 last update before bedtime.....

I think I solved my own problem.

So I didn't realize what kind of pump I purchased and come to find out the 8800 is a booster diapharam pump, which means it needs something to keep the polarity straight and allow for a good prime. So I lifted my 5 gal sap bucket onto a chair and left the RO System on the ground and sure as **** it started flowing pretty darn good.

I mean at this rate I do not think I will return the pump unless you guys insist its still not strong like it should be.

But it seems to be holding steady at 80 psi with BOTH filters running and a steady stream on both ends....YEA!

Should have mounted pump under transformer, But it won't fit with the fittings next to the filter inside my pale. Guess it is what it is.

THANKS A TON GUYS!

[carls47807]

That aquatec should draw 5’ vertical with 3/8” od hose. At least it is working, that’s all that matters! You should be getting 4-5gph from 2-4% sugar if it’s working properly.


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[DRoseum]

Agreed - aquatec pumps are diaphragm pumps and self prime. As stated below they can lift sap vertically on 3/8 tubing up to 6 feet. I did this regularly last year with 8852 pump. Did you try other advice such as letting system run without back pressure to ensure all air is removed? Get the needle valve working?

[clifford5555]

Hey Guys, I'll update ya on my results!

So honestly, the only thing I think I needed to do was make sure my source sap/draw line, was higher than the pump. It even says this in the details if ya read thoroughly on amazon where I got it.

As soon as I lifted the bucket of sap onto a chair so it was just above the pump. I pulled about 8 gallons of permeate from 11 gallons of sap in about 3 hours. It had no problem pushing the filtered sap back into the bucket above to keep recycling it thru.

I timed a full 5 gallon pale, it took about 90 mins to get about 70% water removed. It ran at about 80-100psi the whole time. I was impressed.

I couldn't get the needle valve to not leak, apparently the needle valve I bought by souix chief is for metal lines, not poly. So it just leaked. I put the ball valve quick connect back on just for testing and honestly it did just fine. I don't think I will mess with this any more. I'm sure the needle is more accurate, but I got it to work perfectly.

I'm happy with my results. Its portable and efficient. I'll probably drill a few drain holes in bottom of bucket in case I spring a leak. Thanks for TIP!

FWIW: I did make a few adjustment from the pictures I posted. I probably didn't need to make these adjustments. But I'm gonna leave it. I did change my configuration to running in Parallel instead of series in the pic. I also added a ball valve so I can run 1 RO or 2 RO if I want. I did replace the check valve elbows that came with the RO housing for normal fittings!

Thanks for all the help!