preheater and hood

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I am going to get a preheater and hood for my 2x8 next year and I need some input on who to get them from from all you maple experts??

The only preheater I have ever seen is the one in the Leader catalogs. Are the ones made by Algier or other companies basically the same?? If different, who makes the best preheater??

As far as hoods go, I priced a hood from Algier and they wanted almost $ 1400 and another $ 700.00 for the preheater. Sounded ridiculous to me for a 2x8 hood. I can get a similar hood from Leader for around $ 950 or less custom made and the preheater is $ 645.00.

I need and would appreciate any and all help from lots of people! :D :D :D

[syrupmaker]

Brandon....i'm not sure but i think mapleking paid only $950 for both from a tin smith up our way. If that is the case have one made up here and when you come up for this years ya'll come we can load it up for you. :wink:

I would be almost certain that a local fab shop your way could build it at a resonable price also. Most of them will build anything as long as you have some plans for them to go by. The hood we just put on was a drawing i made up and the guy had it done in a day. I'll send you a picture of it.

Rick

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Rick,

Thanks and I will be looking for the pics.

I am still waiting others opinions on hoods and preheaters??

[FMWARREN]

Brandon, I had a local sheet metal shop make my hood out of SS and I made the preheater myself, i have less than $350. in both. there is a picture of the hood on mapleman3 homepage.after 15min. of boiling the sap enters the float scup at 150 to 170 and never gets below 150 and you never run out of hot water. I can send details on preheater really simple if you can sweat pipes.FM

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Frank,

I just was looking at the pics on Jim's website a few minutes ago. I really am interested in a hood like Joe(Maple King's) that covers the syrup pan too. I can solder copper pretty good, so I could make a preheater.

My question is what do you use for a drip pan and how do they work??

[FMWARREN]

Brandon, I have a ss drip pan under the preheater that hangs from hood and drains through the side of the hood into a 5gl pail, we use the hot water to clean and wash down the floor every night. I will take some pictures in the morning and send them to your email.FM

[Fred Henderson]

I have looked at your photo's and if you designed and built everything for sugaring then you can build your own preheated and it will be better that and more efficent that anything that you can buy . I will tell you how. Use 1/2 finned tube radiation, you know the kind that is used in homes for baseboard heat. Make the header using 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" copper tubing. Figuare out how long the headed has to be. Drill 5/8" dia. holes properly spaced because 1/2 ID is 5/8 OD. Leave about a 1/2" space between the fins. Solder it all together and make sure there are no leaks.If you don't want to use solder then there is some rod call "stay-silver" and it is not too pricey,no cleaning of the copper is required. If you have a turbo tourch use Mapp gas cause it is hotter.
When is is put into use the sap will be coming out at app. 211 drg.

[WF MASON]

Having someone make a hood is pretty basic , a preheater is alot more tricky , you need to slow the sap enough to preheat , but not allow the sap to steam inside the preheater and screech at the float valve. If you use the sap to fast it does'nt have time to preheat. And it does'nt work .I've seen both , Its a fine line and varys with the size of the evaporator and rate of boil. And if the condensate that falls back down the hood stack is'nt collected and goes back into the flue pan, it darkens the syrup.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Keep the suggestions coming as I appreciate everything. My biggest problem is no one down here makes syrup, so I can't just go and look at a preheater. There is one guy about 1.5 hours away that has a very nice 3x10 Algier and he made his own preheater. He is going to redesign it after the season, so I may go see him.

My maple dealer is Amish and I left him a message about maybe someone in the Amish community that could make a hood and a preheater. He is a dealer for every evaporator company there is and has been for years, so I will see what he says.

I am thinking of going with a 1 piece hood that will cover both pans and have only one steam stack coming out of it. Some of the Algiers are like that and Leader says it will work fine.

More suggestions about everything is greatly appreciated. :D :D

[Fred Henderson]

It goes with out saying that you need a condensate pan under the preheater. I build everything that I use eavp, arch, scoops, skimmers, preheater and hood. The water that comes off the preheater we use to wash our filters in and other things. If I know what someting is supposed to look like then I say that I can build it. My sap comes out of the preheater at 180 drg. My heater could only be 8" wide because of the pan design but I have a total of 36' of 1/2" copper tubing in there.A good tight fitting steam hood is regulated by a damper in the exhaust and is set so that when steam starts to exit where it(hood) sits on the pan then you have sufficent steam for the heater to work sufficently. With good dry wood I eavp. well over 50gals per hour. I did my homework before I built this unit and it has exceeded my expectations.
I think that I would use a little caution in hooding the whole unit. Because in my case I like to see and make sure that there is sufficent liquid the my syrup pan.

[themapleking]

Brandon,
I had my complete hood with 16 feet of shack, all s.s. built for $454. The pre heater I built myself. It's just copper pipe 3/4 " 8 pieces 4 ft long side by side with elbows connecting them. The sap goes in and threw the pipes and back out into the flue float. With a drip try under it. With my evaporator cranking full, the sap coming out of the preheater is 200 degrees in the digital termo.
The dealer prices are 4 x's what you can have made and make your self

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Joe,

If you get time, send me pics of your preheater, drip tray and hood as many as possible. I can solder pretty good, so I am sure I could build a preheater, but I can't build a drip tray and I don't know how to set it up with the brackets and ect.

No one down here makes syrup, so I can't just go and look at some one else's setup. :?

[saphead]

Fred, you're use of finned tubing is something I've had in the back of my mind for years(hvac training 25 yrs. ago). The heat transfer possibilties are awsome due to the square inches of aluminum per ft. of tube! One sugar house I worked at had it's feed tank on the second floor which gave nice head pressure @ the float box,this type of setup would allow an outlet valve between the preheater and floatbox to regulate temp. and flow. If it was a busy sugarhouse I'd keep my eye on the valve or put the handle in my pocket ,one guest going oops what's this for ,could mean $$ in melted flue pan. Great ideas, would like to see some pictures.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have a question, or should I say lots of them and I know other people that are interested in hoods and preheaters, so any help will be appreciated by many.

Where does the preheater mount inside the hood. Does it mount over the center of the flue pan or closer to the side?? What keeps the steam from condensing on the bottom of the drip pan and dripping back into the flue pan?? I assume the drip pan has to level with or above the top of the flue pan to run the water outside the evaporator??

I have more questions, but will wait to get answers on these first.

Thanks in advance.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

If I get a custom made hood, why can't I have the drip pan built into the center of the hood the entire length of the hood and have the drip pan designed to run right into the "J" channel on the hood?? :?: :idea:

To me that seems like the best thing and then I could design my preheater from there.

[Fred Henderson]

I did not make mine out of finned tubing but I did tell a friend that if I ever did another one that is what I would use. He set up a 3'x5' and made his peheater the way I had suggested. He told me that the sap was entering the float box at 211 drg. I suggested that it was just a little to hot and to open his steam damper a little more, 205 to 208 would be better. I used 1/2" tubing because the smaller the column of sap the easier it is to heat. I did not want to go to 3/8" because that small ridgid tube cost more. I can not take any pic's right now cause it is in use.

[Fred Henderson]

Westvirginamaple
What I would do is make the drip pan about 4" narrower that the flue pan and probably the same in length. that would allow the steam 2" all the way around to rise. The side of the drip pan I would make then about 2" high, the I would make the preheater to fit the drip pan. Then I would put a 3/4" hole and fitting in one corner for my condensate drain, by elavating the pan front to back and side to side the water will the go where you want it. There is probably a little staem the condens on the bottom of the pan but not much it will be almost the same temp as the steam. Are you getting a mental picture yet? They are not hard to make just think of what you want it to do and make it to fit what you have.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I am waiting to hear from Joe(mapleking) to see if I can get in touch with whoever made his hood. Heck of a price and exactly the style I want. What I was wanting to do if you experts think this will work is to have the drip pan run the entire length of the hood just above the syrup pan and have it permantly attached to the hood so it will drain into the hood drip channel as I stated earlier.

I will probably make the preheater out of copper pipe or tubing as has been suggested and mount it on above each end of the drip channel with stainless brackets and bolts so it can be adjusted.

To me this seems like the way the factory ones are made except the drip pan is seperate from the hood. This way if I ever need to access the preheater, all I would have to do it take it loose which would take about 5 minutes. If you don't think this would work, let me know. I hate doing things twice and would rather do it right the first time. :? :)

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

What is the recommended heighth of the preheater above the drip pan and is it a good idea to have the drip pan made as part of the hood??

[DougM]

Brandon,
there is technical info for the design of preheaters in the NAMSPM at http://ohioline.osu.edu/b856/b856_85.html
Doug

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Doug,

Thanks for the info, I was reading about that last night after I posted the question. I am trying to get a feel for what other people think is the best heighth above the drip pan??

[wanabe]

Brandon, I just picked up a 2x8 for next year and was also interested in a hood and preheater. My current pre heater would not be able to keep up with the 2x8 and Im tired of paying for propane to fire it. I went and saw a guy that built one and it looks quite simple to build. He made his drip pan and J channel one piece just is hooked in the front and back. He hooked his preheater into panels in each end of the hood. If he nees to remove the preheater for and reason he just unbolts both panels and it slides right out one end. This way his drip pan is all welded up and no leaks. I'll get some pictures in a couple of weeks he was running the thing at the time and I could only peek through the access panels on the side.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jeff,

Sounds like a great idea and I will be waiting to see the pics. I had already planned to have my drip pan built into the hood and connected to the "J" channel on each end so it is attached to the hood and drains into the "J" channel. I have come up with ideas on how to build a good preheater thanks mostly to MapleKing.

Good luck with the new 2x8 and what kind did you get??