Hilly Woods Sap Hauling

[Maplesapper]

Any suggestions on an inexpensive way to haul sap behind a snowmobile so that the trailer/ sled/ bin that is getting towed wont fall offbalance ?

Our woods are located 1.8 miles away from the sugar shack.
Several ravine and side hill sections.
Great for natural vacuum setup, but tricky to haul the sap back in anything other than very small containers.
We tap 400 trees; so would like to find a way to carry back 150 gallons at a time.
Pelican, Otter sleds seem to tip and don't have enough carrying capacity

Thanks

[Cjadamec]

There's two ways to increase stability of your sled.

Wider base and or out rigger skis.

Or invest in a long rectangular tank that is as short in hight as possible.

You could also try adding concrete ballast to the bottom of your sled but that will decrease your hauling capacity.

[johnallin]

You'd a be a lot better off if you could pump it to the top of the worst hill... 150 gallons is close to 1200 lbs! I have a snowmobile and pulling that and keeping it stable on flat ground would be a challenge. To side hill it? Suicide

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Have you checked out the otter pro large or xl sled? The xl is the size of an 8’ pickup bed. That’s your best best bet for stable but can’t imagine sidehilling that much weight.

[eagle lake sugar]

A friend of mine used to tap 175 trees with buckets. They hauled their sap down the hill in a tank on a sled like you're talking about. One day they tipped over and dumped a full tank on the ground, they quit shortly after that. I'd pump it if at all possible.

[Maplesapper]

Have been reading about the Otter Pro large- might need to go see one in person somewhere- that seems like the answer.

Pumping is not really an option. Almost 1 mile as the crow flies using google earth.
And think of four sine wave style ravines over that stretch.

Have an old truck with 37" tires- but it sure don't like the spring mud trail. Just like driving on goose poop

[bigschuss]

IMHO I don't think you're going to haul 150 gallons at a time unless you lay out a serious investment in equipment. You're talking over half a ton of sap...uphill...and downhill...with a snowmobile? One, I'm not sure if there is a snowmobile made that will haul that kind of weight. Two, they are not made for hauling weight. Three, even if you got it up, I think on the down you'd have a hard time keeping that weight from running away with the sled.

I use a large Otter sled with a 50 gallon food grade barrel strapped in....pulling it with a 600 cc 2 up sled on mostly flat ground. If there is even the slightest incline the machine begins to get bogged down. Pulling three times that? Never. A 50 gallon barrel works decently, but it does get top heavy. Even on my flat ground I have to be VERY careful. I think you'd end up dumping the barrel more often than you'd like on the terrain you're describing.

Also, the frame that connects the Otter to the machine is not robust at all. Unless you rig up something more robust, you're going to drive yourself crazy each time you hit a bump and it comes unhitched. Or take a turn and the Otter goes one way and you go the other.

I'm not sure I have a great solution for you. A 4 mile round trip on a snowmobile is not pleasant, or a best use of time. Some kind of a low profile tank mounted to an aluminum sled is one solution. The perfect option of course is a nice UTV with tracks and a tank mounted on the back...but of course that's also the most expensive.

[anchorhd]

Tracks on a atv or utv might be an option.

[Maplesapper]

Thanks Bigschuss !!

That's exactly the info and insight I was hoping to get.

We pull two (2) fifteen gallon barrels in a smaller boggan now; and it rolls out on slow sidehills.
I have a Tundra LT 600; it pulls well, but the balance of the load is the real issue.
Had a welder make up a knuckle for the hitch; and it generally is better but wont stop the rollover.

Looks like multiple trips will be the ticket until the the trail dries up.

[30AcreWoods]

This will sound outrageous, but I'm going to put it out there anyway. By virtue of my career, I've had the unique, amazing and fortunate opportunity to travel to Antarctica, Greenland and many other cold/austere locations. I led a technical team the developed a new way to haul fuel for over a thousand miles from Ross Island (McMurdo Station) to the South Pole Station in Antarctica (they need about a million gallons of fuel on hand down there). We started with tractors and stainless steel tanks with skis. They were awful, and the project was not viable using that technology. We developed bladder sleds, using 3,000-gal fuel bladders and high molecular weight polyethylene (HMW-PE) - aka "plastic" - sleds strapped to them. They are low profile, tow with very little resistance, and are extremely durable. We routinely tow them up and down hilly terrain, and over 5 and 6-ft high sastrugi (hard, wind blown snow "bumps"). They make the bladders in all shapes and sizes for potable water as well. And you can get HMW-PE and UHMW-PE ("U" is for Ultra) in all shapes, sizes and thicknesses, and cut it with routine home building equipment to custom sizes. Yes, we've even towed smaller bladder sleds behind snow machines, etc. If you have snow, I can attest to the fact that there is no more efficient way to tow high volumes of liquid. Here is a link, so you know I'm not making this up! https://antarcticsun.usap.gov/features/4397/

[GramaCindy]

Very interesting!

[18mile]

I have a skidoo super white track/long track with a 900 mL engine and a ottersled. I wouldn’t even attempt 50 gallons. I agree that a utv with tracks would do the job. Good luck

[Maplesapper]

This will sound outrageous, but I'm going to put it out there anyway. By virtue of my career, I've had the unique, amazing and fortunate opportunity to travel to Antarctica, Greenland and many other cold/austere locations. I led a technical team the developed a new way to haul fuel for over a thousand miles from Ross Island (McMurdo Station) to the South Pole Station in Antarctica (they need about a million gallons of fuel on hand down there). We started with tractors and stainless steel tanks with skis. They were awful, and the project was not viable using that technology. We developed bladder sleds, using 3,000-gal fuel bladders and high molecular weight polyethylene (HMW-PE) - aka "plastic" - sleds strapped to them. They are low profile, tow with very little resistance, and are extremely durable. We routinely tow them up and down hilly terrain, and over 5 and 6-ft high sastrugi (hard, wind blown snow "bumps"). They make the bladders in all shapes and sizes for potable water as well. And you can get HMW-PE and UHMW-PE ("U" is for Ultra) in all shapes, sizes and thicknesses, and cut it with routine home building equipment to custom sizes. Yes, we've even towed smaller bladder sleds behind snow machines, etc. If you have snow, I can attest to the fact that there is no more efficient way to tow high volumes of liquid. Here is a link, so you know I'm not making this up! https://antarcticsun.usap.gov/features/4397/

What a forum !!
Looking at it now. Low center of gravity, low drag efficient- perfect combo.
The humorous part- I own a 1987 HUMVEE.
They may have loved the desert but stink in the snow.

[Maplesapper]

Hey 30AcreWoods-
Any idea of brand ? I am trying to source a manufacturer either here in the NE USA or Canada

[30AcreWoods]

What a forum !!
Looking at it now. Low center of gravity, low drag efficient- perfect combo.
The humorous part- I own a 1987 HUMVEE.
They may have loved the desert but stink in the snow.

They were all up-armored against IED's. Wheels suck in deep snow: high ground pressure & poor traction. Tracks rule in snow: low ground pressure with grousers that engage the shear strength of the snow - which is enhanced by the load of the vehicle acting on its tracks.

[30AcreWoods]

Hey 30AcreWoods-
Any idea of brand ? I am trying to source a manufacturer either here in the NE USA or Canada

Try to see if you can source a bladder from a company called ATL (Aero Tech Labs) out of NJ. I have no affiliation and don't earn a commission. But I do know their products work in winter conditions :)

You can get HMW or UHMW in a lot of places and fabricate it easily to your need. Here is one guy I know who has some examples of what you can do, I've seen his stuff all over the polar/arctic regions: https://northernsledworks.com/

[Sugarmaker]

30 acre woods,
Now that was pretty cool. The OP may have more hills in a short distance. And the CAT Challenger is the way to go for hauling out sap! Just saying.......:)
Regards,
Chris

[Maplesapper]

Hey 30-
Nice career-sure seems like an exciting way to spend some cold weeks.
Cannot imagine the things you were able to see.
I spent two weeks in the arctic circle- to be able to spend months would be overwhelming.

[30AcreWoods]

Haha! Indeed, things can and do get cold. Once you hit -40F/C and below, you find out quickly what equipment makes the grade. Sapper, as long as it is summer, you have 24-hrs of sunlight, so it isn't as overwhelming as you might think. We just work all the time.

Sugarmaker, the CAT/AGCO Challengers work well, the CASE/IH Quads do a fair job as well because the articulation is a benefit on slopes and turns (less skid steer required). Either would be excellent for hauling sap, no doubt!