Liquid ring pumps

[gmcooper]

Anyone been using the oil version of liquid ring vacuum pumps for a couple years or longer?

How have they held up over time?
Do they really do a good job at maintaining high vac(25")?
How much does a couple small leaks effect the sytem?
Mark

[maplecrest]

i would be interested in hearing this also the water source to one of my pumps is not runnig right now and i am a bit worried about what to do

[Parker]

Jeff you said in another thread that the liquid ring pumps dont pull the large CFM's like the dairy pumps,,Dosent that depend on what the liquid ring pump is rated for in terms of cfm's?,,,I dont know and am curious,,I know some fellows a couple of towns over that bought an Indeania liquid ring pump rated for 96 cfms (on 3000 taps) I figured that would pretty well cover it,,,,,,,I know on RTE.11 I had the end cap off a 3/4" mainline and the pump(surge76) was still holding 11" on the rest of the system,,,,I know they make some pretty small liquid ring pumps,,but also some big ones

[maplecrest]

96 cfms for 3000 taps taps ought to tell you something. now i have a 3hp liquid ring on 1800 taps, max taps 1500 for the pump. i use a dairy pump to look for leaks because its pulls more air. once what appears to be all the leaks fixed i switch to the liquid ring. the liquid ring will show lower vac on the guage than the dairy pump. go looking again for leaks. at that point it is a bad tap hole or a leaky saddle. once tight it will come up to 22 or above depending on how tight the system is.if you get a deer bite or a line down it will show with lower vac with ring pump than dairy the vac will stay higher. as for a 96cfm on 3000 you would need to ask them how bad a leak would effect the system. if i was to do it again i think i would get an airblow oil flood. liquid ring need water and the colder the water stays the better the vac levels. if the water warms up the vac goes down

[mountainvan]

Another producer in my area told me that you get 50% more sap at 22-24" vacuum than at 19".

[maplecrest]

that is true, 50% more liquid but the sugar content is lower at higher vac than at 19. and to get those higher vac levels you need a tight system.and cool water in the pump

[PATheron]

Jeff- I ended up getting a 59 cfm liquid ring. I wanted a bigger one for expansion mainly. This setup is to be run with a long piece of black water line between the pump and the coolant tank. Its kind of a geothermal design but he said you can just lay it out on the ground work fine. What kind of vac levels do you expect me to run? You know my tube is way oversized for the taps I have. Theron

[royalmaple]

Theron-

You should wire up that pump to your tubing and see what you can pull. It won't be accurate for a good run out in the bush, but you can see what you can get out of the pump anyway and get an idea how tight your system is.

I think when you are talking about high vacuum you are limited by your elevation from sea level as well, regardless of the tubing you are on.

[PATheron]

Maybe Ill do that. Ill have the shed wired up soon and the tanks and releaser in place. Maybe in a few weeks ill be able to try it. Theron

[maplecrest]

when you say coolent tank are you going to run antifreeze? i tank a 275 gallon tank[plastic] in a steel cage , put pump on top. run fresh water into tank, to keep cool. pump draws and returns water as it runs. if you had a good water supply, you could hook directly to pump and discharge down drain if inside.the cooler the water the higher the vac levels. warm water means lower vac levels. during cold spells i pull the water hose out and let the pump run keeping the water warm so it does not freeze. if cold for a number of days i shut off pump and drain. till warmer weather

[PATheron]

Jeff- The way I understand this pump to operate is the cooling tank is filled with an antifreeze solution and the fluid is circulated through a 100-150' of plastic waterline buried or set out on the ground. Theron

[maplecrest]

seems like a lot of work, the price of the antifreeze{food grade}.and i thought thermal was heat. my point is the cooler the water the higher the vac levels, so i always used spring water. on of my springs to one pump is getting enough water to the cows, but none left over to run the pump. i was thinking about anti freeze and a radiator with a fan of some sort to keep it cool. that is way i was interested in the oil as a coolant

[maplwrks]

Jeff,
I saw that being used at Highland Sugarworks in Starksboro. He had his out flow running through a small car radiator with a 10" box fan blowing through it. From the radiator he had a pipe that ran back to the storage tank that fed the pump. The fan and radiator sat in a window on the north side of his vacuum shed, helping to warm the building a little, keeping things from freezing up.
Mike

[maplecrest]

thanks for the info mike, now the hard part will be to find a radiator that is in good shape. with copper the way it is.

[Brian Ryther]

How many GPM do the liquid rings require? Does the water source need to be under pressure, or does the pump pull what it needs?

[PATheron]

Brian- My ring pump has a 50 or 60 gallon plastic tank hooked to it and I run probly 30 gallons in it normally. The way it works is the coolant water goes out of the bottom of the tank and runs through about 100' of 1" line and then it goes into the pump on a port in the side of the pump head. When the pump runs it circulates the water through the pump itself. The discharge part of the pump just dumps the water back into the coolant tank. I dont have any problem keeping my cooling water cold and I normally run 26-27" of vac. Theron

[Haynes Forest Products]

Maplecreast
Go to a junkyard and look for the cop car radiators they are alot bigger and have two fans on them. One is on a thermastat for when the car is sitting while he writes you a ticket on a hot day. The best way to run the fans are off a battery that is charging deepcycle is best let it charge all day all night.
HFP

[Brian Ryther]

What model pump are you running Theron, or any one else that uses a liquid ring? I am looking at a SIHI LPHB 3780 2 stage. The quote says it will do 70 CFM @ 20", Would it be safe to assume that it would do 30CFM @25". Does any one use the 2 stage or you all using single stage?

[PATheron]

Brian- My pump is a Dekker 59cfm. It has a 5 hp motor. You could contact the manufacturer maybe and get a performance curve for the pump your looking at. I know once you get to real high vac levels it will decline and also if the coolant gets hot it will too. Mine seems pretty powerfull to me and I run high levels. I think 25 is the majic number. I think much over that is kind of hard on things. I dont think the performance really starts dropping untill you get over the 25 as far as the cfm's. I have mine on 1570 taps and you can literally have drops off everywhere and youll still read 15" at the pump. Terrian

[emericksmaple]

2 years ago we bought a 5hp sihi water cooled pump and we love it. We have 2200 taps on it at the moment. From the pump and releaser to the first tap it is 2500 feet. I pulled 22" this year at the pump and had no problem getting 22" in the woods. I run 1" and 1 1/4 wet lines and 1 1/4 dry lines and it works great. Yea I had to bulid a heated room and I have it on a 300 gal tank but so far it has worked great. On days where it run for 48+ hours I usually have to add about 50 gal of water. I have a friend in quebec and he has had a 3hp on 2000 taps fro 25 years and the only thing he has ever done to it is replace the rubber between the pump and the moter.

[Homestead Maple]

I received some info in the mail yesterday from Tuthill Vacuum systems that are single stage and two-stage, (maybe other people got it too). Some are made to be self contained and use oil as a coolant/sealer. CFM capacities are from 10-140. Max vacuum is 28" on the two stage with water and 29" with oil. The AF OSR system which is self contained seems like an answer to those having difficulty cooling their pumps. Their web site is,
http://vacuum.tuthill.com

[maplecrest]

matt of royal maple sells the same pump