pump help/suggestions

[miboss]

Ill be starting my third year in my sugarbush and I'm trying to improve on some things. Here's my situation...

Approximately 650 ft from collection tank to sugar house.
Approximately 10-15 ft of incline from collection tank to sugar house.

Currently using a Honda wx10 to pump. Collection tank is 1400 gal.

My pump times (to completely pump 1400 gal) are usually 4-5 hours with trips to pump every 45 min or so to refuel, so 300 gal/hour at best.

it was suggested that it could help if I put another pump up at the sugar house to help pull the sap up.

What would be a good pump to do this? I do have electric available so electric is an option, in fact, I would prefer electric, so I wouldnt have another pump to fill with gas.

Reading about different electric pumps it seems like priming may be an issue, unless I start the gas pump at the collection tank, then start the electric pump at the sugar house when sap starts flowing.

Thoughts? Pump suggestions?

[VT_K9]

What is the size of your output on the tank? Our first collection point (sap shack) was 750' away and 65' below. The tank had a 1 1/2" output. We used a Honda WH15 (high pressure pump). We moved about 25/26 gallons per minute. Our new sap shack, 1200' away and 80' rise, has a 2" outlet on the tank. We bought a Honda 2" pump to move that sap and replaced our other tank with one which has a 2" outlet so either pump can be the back up to the other. If our WH15 were to give up the ghost we would replace it with a 2" pump.

Use the Honda Pump Select on their website to check for an estimate of the gem. We found it accurate for our fist sap shack. The supply needs to be equal or greater than the size of the pump for proper supply.

Mike

[miboss]

I'm not 100% sure the size of the output on the tank, but it's either 1.5 or 2".

oh, forgot 1 important fact, I'm pumping through 3/4 mainline

[arcticmaple8]

With 650ft of 3/4 pipe plus 15feet of elevation and 300 gal/hr your total head pressure is around 70ft. The small pipe is the issue, its restricting pump. Out of your 70 ft of headpressure only 15 is from actual elevation the rest is resistence in the pipe. Running 1inch will get u around 600gph, 1.25 would be 1100gph.
Adding a pump to suck at other end would only help a little. A pump will only suck or create a vacuum of -15psi in a perfect world so u might get 100 or 200gph max.

[Cjadamec]

I second the recommendation to increase the size of the line between the pump and the tank. Your money will be much better spent doing that rather than investing in another pump. with only 15 feet of elevation change you should be able to get pumping rates in the 25-30gpm range (1500-1800gph). In order to max out the flow potential of your pump you need to go to 1.5" diameter pipe or larger up to 2".

Based on the pump curve for your pump you need to keep total system head below 20 feet of head to max out the pump. Going to a 1.5" pipe will drastically reduce the flow restriction on the pipe. With your pump you should be able to empty the 1400 gallon tank in less than an hour.

[miboss]

Thank you everyone for your help and saving me from buying another pump!

[maple flats]

Remember, black poly can be used as a pump line. I suggest a 1.25" line and keep the WX10 for now. If the WX10 ever needs replacing, go with a WX15. When finished pumping, remember to drain the line, either back into the tank or better haul it some way to the sugar house.

[bill m]

Outlet size on tank does not matter. You can put a 2 inch pump on a 1 1/2 inch outlet and still get the rated flow of the pump.

[eustis22]

Not sure where to put this so I will try here. here's the scenario....I have two 55-gal barrels at the end of my 3/16 that I use a 1/10 HP pump to load into another 55 in my truck to haul up the hill where I then run a hose from the 55 135 feet (slight downslope) to a 275 tote that is my sap tank. I was trying to use another 1/10 HP (since upgraded to a 1 HP) to pump down the slope to the tank but here's the issue...when not connected to the pump the outflow form the barrel is fine.....when connected to the pump, it's just a trickle. What causes this and is there a solution? My goal is to empty the carry 55 barrel as quickly as possible.

[wmick]

Not sure where to put this so I will try here. here's the scenario....I have two 55-gal barrels at the end of my 3/16 that I use a 1/10 HP pump to load into another 55 in my truck to haul up the hill where I then run a hose from the 55 135 feet (slight downslope) to a 275 tote that is my sap tank. I was trying to use another 1/10 HP (since upgraded to a 1 HP) to pump down the slope to the tank but here's the issue...when not connected to the pump the outflow form the barrel is fine.....when connected to the pump, it's just a trickle. What causes this and is there a solution? My goal is to empty the carry 55 barrel as quickly as possible.

Sounds like you have air locked in your pump... Needs priming.... Which might be a challenge, as the water is falling away down hill and air coming back up...
What specific pump are you using? and what size of tubing in and out?

Couple things that come to mind that I might try.
1. One thing I would try is this... Install a "T" in the outgoing line from the pump, with a ball-valve on it... Open it, to allow air to escape easily until your intake is full and pump is primed... Then close it with the flow comes....
2. Is there a primer port or plug in the top of the pump? Install a valve on it and a funnel to fill the housing for priming...
3. Create a little "P" trap in your outgoing pipe/hose... to prevent air from getting back up to the pump from the downhill pipe. (doesn't take much...Just make sure it goes up a bit, before it goes down.) this will also keep the pump housing full when filling it to prime.
4. Keep your intake hose from the barrel as short as possible.. to minimize the air that needs evacuating... (In a perfect world, plumb an outlet off the bottom of the barrel instead of dropping a pipe over the top.. but shouldn't be necessary)

[Father & Son]

Another thing to consider, if you change your pump line to something bigger run the line up 15 or 20 feet elbow it and run it down to the sugarhouse. That way instead of pumping uphill 650 ft to the sugarhouse you are only pumping up 15 or 20 ft and then it’s downhill to the sugarhouse and it will actually help pull the sap.

[eustis22]

I will try your suggestions, wmick. Thanks!